All of you who think Obama or McCain are going to be vehicles for change are brainwashed. McCain has a history of standing up to republicans and democrats. However, nothing has really changed. Obama’s record shows that he voted along party lines 97% of the time.

I can feel the change. Not.

The reason why the Dow plunges every day is because polls suggest that Obama is going to win. The free market is about to be replaced by socialism!!

Which is myth and which is legend

The Long Gray Line has never failed us.

Getting an MBA from and Ivy League school means you’re the best and brightest.

I for one believe that the current crisis originated long before anyone here thinks. For over
forty years, corporate America has held that Ivy League B schools trained the best and brightest.
Since Enron, six years ago, we have seen a near constant parade of arrogance and stupidity along with enough public dispalys of ethical failure to make one wonder if any Ivy League MBA graduate on Wall Street has the moral compass to find the parking lot.

Maybe I’m just grousing. But you only have to have one encounter with McKinsey and Co to wonder what in the devil do the faculty put in people’s heads when they get admitted to Harvard Business or Wharton.

Stand out article.

I brought this into class as we have been talking about the election and everyone really enjoyed the article.

Keep it coming.

Any advice you would give a young undecided voter?

It isn’t Mcbama it might be a O-bum-ar pronounced O bummer

Lisa Marie, if you are in college, or finished - whatever. You really need to learn to spell if you wish to be taken seriously.

To Leslie Martinez: You wrote an intelligent assessment of the status quo. You give me hope that not all the voters out here are nor airheaded nimnods.

Gosh Dick, you sure paint a gloomy picture. I wouldn’t expect any one man or woman to pull us out of our economic woes, that will take a truly bipartisan effort in cahoots with some savvy economists from many specialized sectors. And we’ll certainly have to suck it up for a few years. But to paint our current situation as “America’s best days are behind us” is foolishly premature. After all, we have a past history of being down, but NEVER out and always able to rebound - even from the ’30s.

Sorry if Dick isn’t your nickname, but it seemed so right.

Grist from the miller…

Thank you, thank you Cherie! If the economic experts cannot agree on what is wrong or how to fix our financial mess, what voter out there is stupid enough to believe that either political candidate has a clue about what to do. They are posturing, plain and simple, because they don’t know anymore than you or I do. All I do know is that my husband who will be 70 next year had hoped to retire then on what was a small, barely adequate pension plus our social security (also not much). In less than six months his pension fund is depleted by more than 40%, and we are looking at being WAY below the poverty line. We don’t have five or ten years to wait and hope the market recovers, while politicians and Wall Street fat cats play with taxpayer money. I am past angry, or furiousl. I am LIVID that we have worked our whole lives and seen our country come to this.

Why would anyone vote for a Democratic lawyer? Eg. Elliott Spitzer, John Edwards, their word is no good.

Obama has repeatedly stated that he will cut taxes on 95% of the people.

What I don’t understand is the lower 40% of the American people don’t pay any taxes now! So does that mean he’s just going to write them a check?

And if the other 55% of the American people that do pay taxes are getting a tax cut, just HOW MUCH are we talking about? In haven’t heard any figures have you?

Please don’t be duped here! If you get a $5 or $10 or even $20 tax cut a month is that REALLY going to do anything for you? No it’s not!

Be smart, Obama needs tpo answer the mail!

I trust that Obama is America’s last hope to save our economy and our children’s future. McCain is showing his typical politician ways by cutting Obama down with “facts” that simply are NOT TRUE. The McCain Palin Campaign is turning ugly and causing American’s to be against other “fellow” American’s. This is not just wrong but is also a security issue. At this time of crisis, college students don’t even know if their degree will be of any use. John McCain has been in the White House and has done nothing but the same as Bush has for 8 years. I have to say I liked President Bush and felt as a country we should have stood behind him to show support and unity as one Country. But things have now turned for the worse. Obama is a man of Change and Hope. Our country is full of imagrants, that is what America is. So why be racist against ones name or color? That is not what this country is about. It’s about living the American Dream regardless of what color you are, what your name is, or where you come from. This country needs change. Obama is America’s last hope.

All though many may think it to negative, THANK YOU for your article. It is spot on, with one exception. Millions of people just don’t look at how these ideologies and the individual associations, have to do with future Presidents.

A look at McCains and Obama’s past associations, and ideology help in knowing who will be appointed to some of the closest and most powerful positions in Government. Also their prior occupations help to predict how closely they will follow and respect the laws, rules and regulations of government, appointing persons who will be political appointees rather than career government workers who still have civil service rules, union affiliations and legislated laws like the Hatch Act, that applies to non politicos.

So as a example, could Obama hire Ayers as his Department of Education Director and how would Ayers philosophy change or influence American education? Could Obama hire aids and ACLU lawyers as staff or Attorney General etc, that influence who is investigated, what rights are inforced, or who function above the law with socialist prejudice, since Bush’s attorneys have been accused of selective enforcement of Border Agents, and Dominici of using influence to just fire States Attorneys during the last election. Of Course the Clintons had Travelgate for not following prior rules, operated above the law during two elections, sold the Lincoln Bedroom, and gave pardons to tax evaders whose ex wives donated richly to Hilary’s campaign to name a few. So the point is that someone needs to point out to the naive, young and unsuspecting Obama supporters and undecideds, that associations and past performance is very important, because since non of them have management experience, they will rely heavily on advice from these associates, people they owe or who supported them, and most importantly “who they think they can TRUST”. But by then it is to late, because the American people have no way to get a President to not appoint or fire someone they trust, once they are in office. I.E look at how much the Dems hated and pressured Bush to get rid of his old Sec of Defense, and his influence on the first part of the War. Bush was loyal and trusted him, therefore regardless of whether you agreed, the SecDef stayed for 6 years.

Associations and ideology matters and must matter to anyone who leads. The problem now is pointing out to the unsuspecting, why it matters. It is not a blame game but rather pointing out to naive, young, spoiled and unsuspecting Dems and Undecideds, why black theology theroy, Ayers and his educational theory and his radical bombing ideas, and Chicago politics theory, are all athema to who we elect President. Time is short, please consider writing about this as I think those even in my own family who are young, educated and naive, fail to see or even know the basic reasons why originally “discriminate” was a good word that kids were taught in school. For 40 years our schools and many parents, have only taught that discrimination is bad, we are supposed to accept and like everyone, and to pick our friends that are like minded, honest or to discriminate in any way, is bad, radical and unimportant.
I have seen the “above the law” by our leaders, spread alot just since the Clintons got away with it and the Dems within the States have perpetuated it. When Clinton was accused by the Christian Right and others as setting a bad example, violating the Constitution and his oath, and people predicted the affect. Nobody listened. But Michelle, and two lawyers with the ability to manipulate the nepotism laws, have the ability to repeat the Dual Presidency agenda, gain name recognition at the governments expense for the 2016 election, and Dem Governors across nation, like Richardson have followed suit using public money’s and civil service old public service issues, to spend millions advertising their own party’s names for future reelection. The Dems hired felons and ACORN for years in New Mexico to register illegals, homeless etc. but first the legislature of Dems made it illegal to discriminate aganst felons, changed the Drivers License requirements so everyone could get one without social security, and recently Richardson co mingled the “Jury Lists” with the Driver License computer, which is a appeal to the ignorant because the jury lists are the voter registration lists. If he is doing it in New Mexico with no one the wiser, imagine what plans and strategies were discussed at all those Party and Governor meetings? They no longer do whats right but what they saw worked and what the masses don’t or cant see is being manipulated and marketed. I could go on but your article is spot on, and a few more on this topic would be appreciated.

“Before you claim to know more than all of us about Economics, I suggest you do your real research. Who got us out of the depression? How? Can the same programs be used to help us now? All these questions have yet to be answered.”

Uh, it was World War II that got us out of the depression. FDR just happened to be the sitting president at the time and tends to get all the credit for it (very erroneously, I might add). So, what “real research” are you referring to, there, “Gimme a break”? What programs are you referring to, specifically, that “got us out of the depression”?

I can’t seem to recall any program working for either Hoover or Roosevelt. The war got the economy going again, plain and simple. It’s basic history.

Yes it does matter. Acorn matters, Project Vote, Aeyers matter, 1.3 trillion dollars in spending matters, his pastor matters, his middle name matters, why hide it. He is too variable, radical and extremist. I am a cuban american and we the cuban community in this country are very afraid of him becoming a president. When someone says the word change be very careful. There is a hidden agenda in this man. There is something about him not clear. We do not trust his judgement, he will become a puppet of the goverment.

We are a bunch of sheep. Clinton set this in motion. If they are breathing, let them have a mortgage, never mind their financial status. People rushed in like sheep with the bankers showing them the way. Now they lose their homes because sheep don’t read contracts or have financial sense. Next, it looks as if maybe the Republicans might pull it off and beat Obama - time for the wolf to scare the sheep senseless. Isn’t it amazing all this is happening JUST before the election? Wow! what timing! Now the sheep are running in circles, bleating their heads off believing Obama will lead them to paradise. Well, Obama is going to win. Paradise is not in the picture, but then it will be too late. Oh our poor people.

For all the liberal pseudo-economists…. FDR was in charge but he didn’t get us out of the Depression. Once be backed off his programs the economy slumped. WWII did the job by mopping up excess labor in the military and putting the rest to work building arms.

Let’s say Americans believe the tripe coming from Mr Obama’s lips with regard to tax cuts for the middle class. And let’s say that after the election the Democrat party increases it’s numbers in Congress and has no filibuster concerns. Remember, democrat leaders have already declared that they are going to let the Bush tax cuts expire! EXPIRE!! So, who’s getting a tax cut? If this senario goes as indicated, YOU, America just got a tax increase.

Just a suggestion here:

Before claiming that certain things are “facts”, consider to provide your sources. When providing your “facts”, consider sources from all sides (left, right, and center). Nothing is more tiring than reading someone’s clearly biased opinion, all while claiming they are “facts”.

I know OBAMA has promised (alot) to bring the troops home because its costing to much,whats he going to do bring the troops home and LAY THEM OFF.The troops get paid regardless of where they are,so for him to sound like a hero is ludicris.PEOPLE JOIN THE MILITARY TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY NOT TO SIT HOME AND POLISH THER WEAPONS.GO U.S.A Anyway,yes it will save money,maybe, as long as he doesnt start another government agency,which is all he wants to do.POWER and MONEY is all OBAMA and the DEMs are in it for.

“Before you claim to know more than all of us about Economics, I suggest you do your real research. Who got us out of the depression? How? Can the same programs be used to help us now? All these questions have yet to be answered.”

That would be WWII. Learn your history. The “programs” simply prolonged it so we needed the war.

my evaluation of the whole problem is the DEMS,PELOSI.For one the dems are not stupid,its election year the economy is always bad,just not this bad.Now all the dems have been doing in the past years is building up a political voting machine,ACORN and FANNY MAE all democratic votes,at the tax payers exspence of course.Now I find it amazing how fast GAS prices went up,why because of CONGRESS which is ran by DEMs.Pelosi wanted the economy bad the only problem is they(DEMs) didnt relize how much turmoil it was going to cause.I know you think CONGRESS doesnt have the power to raise GAS prices,try again.when BUSH lifted the ban on drilling prices went down,when congress didnt lift the ban gas prices stopped going down and went up to put the economy in turmoil,then to top it off the Dems went one step further,we will run FANNY MAE into the ground,and thats what they did at the tax payers exspence.So how do you fix the economy, get the DEMs out of CONGRESS,and start drilling and every other kind of energy.Oh thats right OBAMA,PELOSI thats the last thing they want,they will lose to much revenue,honestly if OBAMA wins the election I bet they put the ban on drilling again.THE DEMs are MONEY HUNGRY,POWER HUNGRY TOOO.They dont work for the AMERICAN PEOPLE,they are only in it for POWER and MONEY.This FANNY MAE bail out is all another Democratic scheme,it just adds another way for themm to get more revenue forthemselves and make the government bigger,Look at OBAMAs advisers Franks,Dobbs,Raines and PELOSI,WOW you trust them,THEY CAUSED ALL OF THIS BECAUSE OF DEREGULATION and GREED,no wonder why OBAMA wants to raise taxes,look at the IDIOTs he has backing him,a case of DUMB,DUMB and DUMMER.
ss

“So as the more foolish among you waste time and lose friends in arguing each candidate’s ‘economic programs…’”

I’m with you here.

Dude - Did you not sit with your pen and your intellect and score the points that McCain covered - and mark down the number of times Obama could not - discuss and/or articulate a plan, promise, solution as to the very real concerns brought out in this community designed debate. I sure did. My husband and I eager to see the measure of the two in regard to unscripted “presidential” activity.

Hard times - which are not the express fault of either candidate right now - mean that there would be no rosy picture that could be painted here as to the budget and/or domestice and international issues. Just pragmatice discussion as to the very real issues and the very real need to “work together” as McCain surely has proven himself adept at doing during his entire tenure in the Senate - not promise, promise, promise away as Obama only desires to try, try, try to do. While in only three years as a U.S. Senator Obama has stood at the door of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, held his hand out and demanded personal monies - while at the same time he in very real terms worked his hardest to bankrupt both lending agencies. And each and every American’s tax dollars….

Tired of the Lies says:

“My counterpoint would be that federal and state governments are not 100% without institutional control, and so therefore are not 100% without economic effect. The more they regulate, the more control they impose. Too much regulation is a bad thing–it stifles economic growth. But too little is bad too–it causes financial markets to crash. ”

The only problem with that rationale is that the government and the economy are two separate entities. The government oversees sectors and only regulates when there’s a high probability of abuse or need for direct accountability.

The government influences NOT controls. It’s like being an adult: Your parents may influence your decisions but they can’t tell you what to do as an adult. Even if you live in their house, they make the boundaries but they don’t control what you do as long as you stay within them.

“Yet unregulated greed (by consumers or companies) damages the economy. Monopolies, anti-competitive tactics, excessive debt, shoddy merchandise, fraud (including by consumers), corruption, and a host of other problems are consequences of greed. Perhaps the ideal government is the government that imposes regulations that help facilitate the economy and eliminates regulations that hinder the economy. Manage greed to make it work best for the economy, in other words.”

Sorry- can’t regulate greed. Greed is a character attribute that translates into a motive. You can’t manage other people’s greed anymore than you can manage other people lying. You can outlaw behavior but you CAN’T outlaw attitudes. That’s mind control, which is unacceptable in a free society. People are welcome to think and feel what they want. What they DO is another story.

I think your use of the word greed in this context is more telling of your opinion of capitalism than a definition of it. In economics, greed is considered a motive and cannot be legislated.

Monopolies are not a product of greed. They’re a product of a lack of competition, which can exist for a variety of reasons, including but certainly not limited to greed.

“But because policies do affect the economy, and because McCain and Obama have very different approaches to the economy, I believe the choice this election to be a very significant one.”

Policies don’t affect the economy. What they really affect are people. My mother says that the stock market is one of the biggest forms of legalized gambling in the world. I think it’s true to the extent that half of the game is psychological. Usually the policies have a psychological affect on people that make decisions and choices.

As other people wrote, Bill Clinton instituted one of the biggest tax hikes of our time but some people LOVE him because of the psychological affect he had some people. Tax hikes are generally upsetting but he managed to smooth talk enough to calm people down. Obama has a way of mesmerizing certain people with his talk. Perhaps Obama will simply do the same, if he gets elected.

Obama is a liar and a fraud but the media wont talk about that. Hey folks he is trying to steal the election, his associates from Acorn are in all the swing states filing false voter registration and some states like Ohio wont or can’t do anything about it. Obama even pay for Acorn to register so call voter out of his campaign cash and try to hide it. But the peoples media wont tell you that. Obama and his wife have been friends with Bill the Bomber since the 1980’s our mainsteam media wont talk about that either. So we are suppose to believe anything Obama says on the stump or we read in the papers or hear on their so call news channels. Do you the people know what Obama and Bill the Bomber board was about. In the public Schools systems they were promoting Civil Disobediences, not reading,not math, and not sciene what our children need to succeed. So even if his denial (he was a man I knew in my neighborhood) were true that not why we send our children to school. Our school systems sucks now so we are going to teach them civil disobedience. What wrong with this picture? American better wake-up and smell the coffee before it’s to late.

Yeah, the economic cycle. Except that people like Barney Frank can’t ride one without training wheels! UN-regulation (vs. de-regulation) is what got us into the problem, and then protecting the credit card cartels via bankruptcy laws - that helped, too. People were made to choose:
1) pay the credit card, forget the mortgage
2) fold the credit card debt INTO the mortgage via consolidation or home equity
3) play the lottery

Wanna help the economy?
Let the big banks fail; divide up their bodies and assorted parts among community banks
and credit unions. And rewrite the bankruptcy laws, making the credit card operators responsible for their own overzealous lending practices.

Long term solution? Teach people to be their own bank. Save, save, save.
And to stop taxing themselves with credit cards: credit cards are like a 15% tax on all goods and services, if you don’t pay ‘em off.

Next disaster in the making? Reverse mortgages.

Michael; One more thing, what about Reagan and the 3 recessions we’ve had since the 70’s?

Michael, I believe you must be liberal and therefore, since I do not agree with you, I am unbalanced and deserve only attack. Where is your argument? I am not attacking I am arguing my belief. Our economic trouble can be traced back 3 years when the dems blocked legislation to reform lending practices and how fannie and freddie function. Barnie Frank was in the lead and anyone who question the practice of lending to people who could not afford increased interest rates were labeled “racist” or against the poor. Wow imagine that, liberals attacking people they don’t agree with, hhhmmm. And now the same people who lead fannie and freddie into collapse are being paid to advise Obama! They took millions, cooked the books, lied about it, and then made huge donations to democratic campaigns, especially Obamas! Those are facts my friend, you have been sucked into this cult of personality that is Obama and can’t stand to hear any criticism of him. He is a 2 year Senator with almost nothing on his resume. I am not all that happy with McCain either but at least he has accomplished many things and will appoint qualified judges. But don’t be fooled, neither of these guys will have money to spend on anything new for a while, not without breaking us.

Ed Starrett, I live on a planet called Earth. What planet do you live on? On planet Earth there are mostly shades of gray. Sounds like things on your planet are mostly black and white. I think that the last three successful Presidents we have had were FDR, Truman and Eisenhower. Our current economic trouble can be traced back to the mid 70s and the blame can be spread around among Republicans, Democrats, the ‘market’ and yes even citizens with unrealistic expectations. Anyone who simply parrots the mantra of one party or another is unbalanced.

Obama- The Making Of A Narcissistic Fuehrer

http://www.faithfreedom.org/obama.html

Barry just said to Charlie, in the most unbelievable admission I’ve heard from the left, that while his many programs were failures, it was FDR’s “vision and leadership” that was important. And that if he is elected “we’re going to try a bunch of stuff until something works” So while admitting that FDR was mostly a failure (wouldn’t fight because of his liberal anti war stance until we were attacked and managed to turn a 6-18 mo depression into a 10 year disaster that we are STILL paying for) he some how thinks that that is a model to follow! Wow, that’s so impressively disconnected from reality that it astounds me. How can anyone who is undecided not understand the facts behind this guy and his borderline un-American plans? How can you not look at the facts of the lead up of this so-called financial crisis? this was Clinton/democrat policies all the way. Another (however insidious) failed attempt at wealth re-distribution now being, somehow successfully, blamed on the GOP.
Rohini: nice piece!
Richard, I believe you are right on about deflation. Neither candidate will be able to have much of an effect on the economy. However it is the possible Supreme Court Justices that The One will appoint that scare me and are the main reason I support McCain. Americans should be very concerned about this and need to understand that there are at LEAST 2 seats coming up on the Bench and what kind of people are going to be appointed by these candidates. If Obama is elected they will be “living document” liberal interpreters who will use it to suit their agenda. McCains appointees will be “read it as the framers intended” conservatives who will uphold the Constitution and protect our great Democracy. This is the message we need to make sure everyone gets!
Sir, you have the platform, please talk about this!
Thank you for some honesty!

Comment by Gimme a break
October 7th, 2008 at 2:06 pm Before you claim to know more than all of us about Economics, I suggest you do your real research. Who got us out of the depression? How? Can the same programs be used to help us now? All these questions have yet to be answered.

WWII started, and our allies began to give us military contracts. After we entered, we needed the women to enter the workforce because we needed to export our supplies as well as keep enough for ourselves. More demand=More supply=More workforce=More money in the suppliers’ pockets.

So, we either need another world war, or the USA needs to come up with an export that other countries actually want to buy, so our money is not just going to imports. (Hmmm cars that run on hemp oil perhaps? Go to http://www.hempcar.org/…burns clean, would make a great cash crop, reusable, and if we’re the first country to utilize this technology, other countries will need to buy our products while they try to catch up and make their own…while we’ll always stay ahead of the curve with new technology)

If you’re under 30 years old and don’t vote Democratic then you have no heart. If you are over 40 and don’t vote Republican then you have no brain!

Whatever happened to that guy that drew that cartoon about the Islam prophat with the bomb for a hat?
Well from what I remember, the whole Islam world was upset about some stupid cartoon. Well my point is, Obama claims to have converted to being a Christain, turning from Islam, how come no threats? Because he didn’t covert, he’s lying and the people in this country that vote for this jerk will wish they had taken the rose colored glasses off before they voted. But they will just blame Bush, thats there way out!!!!!!

Obama is free to run for the leader of any socialist country in the world (e.g., most of Europe). And I wish he would. He should stay out of politics in a Constitutional Republic like we have (for now) in the US.
By the way Congress - did you notice the US market and global reaction to the ridiculous $700 billion rathole you created? Not surprisingly, you can’t change a landslide with money.

I worked 32 years for the government and retired because I was tired to changing everything every 4 years. Usually, back to something we did before. Bascially, very few people ever paid attention to the changes and just keep right on doing what they have always done. Hence an effed up government. Things you don’t know about how Obama plans to change the way the government works, not on the hill, but down in the weeds, would make your hair stand straight up and blood shot out of your eyes. God help everyone who depends on any government services. If you thought it was bad before, when the wave of retirees leave (those of us who actually took our jobs seriously), good luck. Don’t forget to tack on the 7.5 billion to Obama’s already outrageous plan for redesigning what was just redesigned. I am so glad I left. Unfortunately, part of my retirement plan resides in TSP that I can’t touch until I’m 59 1/2 without a big penalty. Well, I guess I don’t have to worry about that anymore. About 40 percent is gone like one writer stated above. I could go back to work, but I’m caring for my mother who has gone blind over the past year. I guess I just can’t win for losing. I’m voting for McCain because he at least understands you can’t raise taxes in this economy and I believe that he will work with real people, not foreigners who Obama wants to impress.

Do you hire a baby-sitter associated with fanatics and refused to disclose his/her pass ?

None dare call it TREASON is more good reading if you want to see how our energywill be the first line of attack

Certainly, the President’s ability is limited; however, presidential influence is undeniable. Unfortunately, U.S. citizens will elect the very worst possible candidate, Obama, because the media want him in. The public can’t know the truth about Obama, because the liberals have almost total control over the information the public hears. Liberals also control the public school systems and the information our children get from pre-K on, so our own precious children are force-fed propaganda from the first to the last day of their public education. Our colleges are even worse–totally controlled by liberal ‘thinking’ to the point that professors (the great non-doers) pride themselves on changing their students from conservative to liberal by feeding them one-sided propaganda instead of truth. How did the liberals get so much control over our great country? I’m not sure, but it appears the communist dictators’ promise to destroy the U.S. from the inside should have been taken more seriously.

While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old rancher, who’s hand was caught in
the gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.
Eventually the topic got around to Obama and his bid to be our president.

The old rancher said, ‘Well, ya know, Obama is a ‘Post Turtle”.
Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a ‘post turtle’ was.
The old rancher said, ‘When you ‘ re driving down a country road on you come across
a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that’s a ‘post turtle’.

The old rancher saw the puzzled look on the doctor’s face so he continued to explain.
‘You know he didn’t get up there by himself, he doesn’t belong up there, and he
doesn’t know what to do while he’s up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb
ass put him up there to begin with’.

WWII got us out of the depression. Roosevelts policies had very little effect.

Ref coments from Swededom. WHO CARES ABOUT YOURS OR ANYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD OPINION.

Franklin Roosevelt did not get the US out of the depression. World War II did.

There are much more sinister forces at play here…haven’t any of you read None Dare Call It Conspiracy?

I completely agree with Knoxville’s comment that if they are up for re-election this November, vote them out, regardless of party affiliation. Maybe the next batch will have a liitle fear of the voting public and remember who they are working for.

Lorie M, responding to me, said:

It helps to compare apples to apples. Neither Stalin, Mugabe or Borbachev was dealing with a capitalist economy. It’s very easy to manipulate a communist or socialist economy because the government owns the means of production and decides the rules thereby.

You make an excellent point: the more institutional control you have over the economy, the more your policies can affect the economy.

My counterpoint would be that federal and state governments are not 100% without institutional control, and so therefore are not 100% without economic effect. The more they regulate, the more control they impose. Too much regulation is a bad thing–it stifles economic growth. But too little is bad too–it causes financial markets to crash.

And there are other influences that the government can and does bring to bear, such as tariffs, subsidies, patent laws, etc., not to mention non-institutional influences associated with projecting leadership.

I wish people wouldn’t focus so much on the greedy execs. They are far from innocent- but they had plenty of company.

We consumers are a greedy bunch. How so? We own and owe more than we had the money to pay for. Aside from houses, student loans and cars, think of all the gatchetry, clothing and electronics that went on credit.

Agreed. Capitalism makes a virtue of greed. Yet unregulated greed (by consumers or companies) damages the economy. Monopolies, anti-competitive tactics, excessive debt, shoddy merchandise, fraud (including by consumers), corruption, and a host of other problems are consequences of greed. Perhaps the ideal government is the government that imposes regulations that help facilitate the economy and eliminates regulations that hinder the economy. Manage greed to make it work best for the economy, in other words.

The government is NOT a non-entity in the economy, as Mr. Miller implies. The government is probably the most significant player of all. But your point about the differences between capitalist and communist/socialist economies is well-taken. Neither McCain nor Obama could tank our economy the way Mugabe tanked Zimbabwe’s economy. Neither can dramatically help it, either.

But because policies do affect the economy, and because McCain and Obama have very different approaches to the economy, I believe the choice this election to be a very significant one.

Thank you for the respectful debate.

While it may be true that neither candidate is going to be able to spend a lot of money on programs or make significant tax cuts, that doesn’t mean that significant changes can’t be made that will have a trememdous effect on the future of the country. Remember, if Obama wins, the White House, and both chambers of Congress will be controlled by a very liberal democratic party. If they have 60 or more Senators, they can legalize all the illegal immigrants and give them access to citizenship immediately. They can pass very damaging gun control legislation, make changes in rules governing union/company relationships to give unions more power, pass legislation to legislate equal pay for comparable work laws, (not for equal work but for different types of work deemed comparable by a committee), and - of course - they can raise taxes. Remember Bill Clinton. He was going to cut taxes on the middles class right up to the day of his inaguration. It was s few weeks after that that he suddenly discovered the deficit that the US has and then signed to biggest tax increase in the history of the US.

There are lots of very damaging things that they can do that can change the character of this country from the kind of thing that makes it great to something like the Socialist countries France or Germany. They are the countries that Obama idolizes and sees as the way the US ought to be. You don’t need a lot of money to make a lot of those kind of changes.

I heard an economist say when asked how the president is handling the economy, “Put a 2200 lb bull in the bucking chute, put a leather harness around him with a handle, then put the bull rider on the bull and strap his hand to the handle. When the gate is opened and the bull takes a couple of jumps out of the chute, the rider comes off but is still tied to the bull as he is thrown from side to side.” It’s probably the best analogy I’ve heard on how much control the president has over the economy. Watch these debates as entertainment but nothing else.

It just really gets so-so tiring to hear the same banter before an election, none of them will support the people and do what needs to be done!

The present goverment has just saddled the working folk with another large tax burden that will last for God knows how long. Look folks, you do not need to be an economics major to know that the just passed bailout is bad news all the way around.

For the people -by the people, I wish is was that way again…..

Swedeom: Are you kidding me? Medical care “completely free”? Sorry, my friend, but there is no free lunch. Your “free” medical care is costing you plenty in taxes. Most Americans wouldn’t stand for that level of taxation, ever. I lived in the UK for 3 years as a teenager, and experienced first-hand the results of your “free” health care. Unfortunately, it was substandard (especially the dental care). I prefer our current system whereby each individual is responsible for his/her own medical care without having to pay for someone else’s bad habits or misfortune. Medical care in this country is available to anyone that needs it, but they, of course, will not receive whatever they want, when they want it. And you neglected to mentioned the rationing of services under a nationalized system. Sorry, but if I carry medical insurance, I don’t want some government bureaucrat deciding my fate (i.e., sorry sir, but you’re 75 years old. We want pay for your hip replacement). Also, not sure how you arrive at your theory on trickle down economics, but I can only surmise it to be a product of a very fertile imagination, completely divorced from reality.

It is unbelievable how the people of this country continue to place thier votes based upon no knowledge and what the TV journalist of biased networks have to say, instead of listening to the whitewash take a real look, at voting records. Barack Obama will lead this country into the highest unemployment rate in 30 years, his plan for health care will never get past the American Medical Association, and overtaxing corporations will lead to more fleeing this failing nation, we only have 35 of the oil in the world so we should not use ours to help this problem, it will take at least 15 years to routinely see any results of using alternative fuels, and thats if they can even agree to pass any legislation, and by the way I am a very middle class citizen and I do not want my taxes raised, but niether does the guy making more than me, is that fair, do any of you realize the amount of taxes a person making a million already pays, and it is evident that Barack does not understand what a small business is, it is one having revenue of less than a million not 250000.00 and there are plenty of them, this guy is a deceptive man and a consumate politician who changes more than the wind, his 8 years line is hogwash and deregulation is fine it is the lack of oversight that caused this problem
and Americas golden boy Bill Clinton

What got us out of the first depression was not the new deal, but WWII. Anyone who claims to have studies economics and doesn’t know this is either wearing blinders or lyiing. The american public has gotten lazy, and until they remember what it means to make personal sacrifice for the better of the country, our best days are behind us. Could you imagine the current generation’s attitude during WWII? We’d all be speaking german.

Some dope said - “Before you claim to know more than all of us about Economics, I suggest you do your real research. Who got us out of the depression? How? Can the same programs be used to help us now? All these questions have yet to be answered.” - implying that President FDR got us out of the Depression and that big govt is the answer.

Simple answer to the who and the how…….WAR!!!!!!!!!!! and the preparation for it. Thats what got us out of the Depression.

Since the US is now to estrogentrified to ever declare war and have a full mobilization then we are in a cultural mess of our own making.

Actually you can thank Germany or more specifically Nazi Germany for getting the US out of the Great Depression. WWII jump started the US economy more than and presidential program.

We the People have not been represented for a long time. I find I have the to choose between
One that stop taking ear marks when running (guilty) and One that did not have any, but is guilty
for not stopping it. I do find it interesting no one is talking about the “Global Poverty Bill”. Have
you read it? Why are we willing to open such risk to America, that this bill does? Is it because
if you have a honest opinion to disagree your told “you are against poor people”. Is this not
the same as calling someone racist? Is that why we a society can not have open and honest
debates, because we are afraid to be classified as uncaring?

Richard…You are a MORON!!! No one ever said that “95% won’t pay any taxes”!!!! Keep spreadin’ the lies!!!

Does anyone remember Bill Clinton’s middle class tax breaks? Well the reason you don’t is because everyone making over 30 thousand a year got a big ole tax hike. Mr. Obama, as we say in the south, ” that ole dog ain’t gonna hunt.”

Sub-Prime Economics for Dummies.

When anything goes wrong, Democrats have a delightful way of pointing fingers of blame at Republicans and chanting: “They did it! They did it!” Just like 2 year olds. When hapless Republicans try to defend themselves, Democrat henchmen in the press cry out “Whoo Hoo! It is getting ugly and partisan. The public hates this! We just took a poll and Republicans are down yet more points!!!”

Take a look at the cities and states run by Democrats for eons. Chicago: corruption - plus, plus; education - zero minus. Philadelphia: biggest murder rate in the country; crime rates soaring; poverty entrenched; education failing. New Orleans - ditto. Los Angeles - so many gangs and murders, they exceed the death rates of our soldiers fighting a war in Iraq! Do we really want Democrats controlling Congress and the Presidency?

If Democrats were asked “Why did the Titanic sink?” They would unfailingly give a silly reply such as: “Because the welder did not weld the hull properly.” Or “Because an iceberg arrived suddenly!” Or perhaps even “Bush made the Titanic sink!” They would never say “Because the man in charge was not watching the ship.” Democrats have been in charge of Congress for 2 years. What have they been doing?

Test yourself: How and why did we get into this sub-prime mess?

(a) It’s the Republicans’ fault because they don’t like regulation?
(b) Because greedy banks sold bundles of sub-prime mortgages to unsuspecting investors and made a bundle?
(c) Because of Obama advisors, Howard Raines and Johnson, who got over $80 million each in bonuses while they cooked the books and ran Freddy Mac & Fannie Mae into the ground?
(d) Because of Barney Frank, who put his spouse Herb Moses, to mint money as a top executive of Freddie Mac until they split up, and who shouted down every Republican attempt to impose some regulations on Freddie and Fannie?
(e) Because of other Democrats in Congress who insisted Freddie & Fannie were sound; intimidated the OFHEO regulators and called them racist when the Regulators told Congress of major problems?
(f) Because Democrats like Chris Dodd, Gorelick, Raines, Johnson and others got mortgages at discounted rates as “Angelo’s friends”; while other Democrats got donations from Freddie and Fannie, with Obama getting by far the largest amount in 2007? And/or
(g) Because Obama-trained militant group ACORN intimidated the banks to give “no doc” loans to the “poor” who had no income and no means of paying back the mortgages; intimidated Freddie & Fannie into setting up 20% of their money for distribution by ACORN, La Raza and other “community organizer/agitator” groups; and also bullied Freddie and Fannie into lowering their lending standards so these sub-prime mortgages could be made?

If you answered (a); then you have flunked; just like those poor kids in Democrat controlled public schools. If you answered (b) through (g); you get partial credit. If you answered (g) at least 90%; then go to the head of the class.

Read, learn and memorize this Basic Economic Fact: If you lend money to people who have no income; they will not pay you back. If you continue lending, you will go broke.

We keep being told that the world loves Obama and will vote for him. But think, if the world really thought he would be good for us in the US and for the world; why are the credit markets tanking?

Credit markets are tanking because no amount of $700 Billion taxpayer bailouts are going help while we will still have the CRA and other regulations which mandate loans to the “poor” who cannot, and will not, pay us back. So, of course, we will lose yet more money and this instability is causing markets to tank. Already, Democrats in Congress have nationalized the housing market; and Freddie & Fannie, government entities, will own all mortgages. The school system is obviously nationalized too.

And if Obama truly becomes our first Arab American President, bringing his Marxist/Socialist “change”; nationalizing the health care system; redistributing income; sending $85 Billion of taxpayer money annually to the “world” (