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	<title>Comments on: Faithless, Faith-Based Initiatives</title>
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	<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bob Ransom</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-10847</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Ransom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-10847</guid>
		<description>The only faith-based changes I want to see are to tax the religious reich, particularly the criminal establishment "Father" Jonathan belongs to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only faith-based changes I want to see are to tax the religious reich, particularly the criminal establishment &#8220;Father&#8221; Jonathan belongs to.</p>
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		<title>By: Dixie</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-10624</link>
		<dc:creator>Dixie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 06:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-10624</guid>
		<description>I don't believe there should be any government funding to religious institutions.  These institutions should be supported by their congregations and their communities for any activities they wish to pursue.

Our government has already mandated federal programs and their funding in their Federal Annual Budgets.  Church members are always welcome to volunteer their time to these programs.

The government provides for evaluation of these programs to determine their effectiveness and possible duplicity with other programs through PART (Program Assessment Rating Tool) Website : ExpectMore.com.

{The Program Assessment Rating Tool (PART) was developed to assess and improve program performance so that the Federal government can achieve better results. A PART review helps identify a program’s strengths and weaknesses to inform funding and management decisions aimed at making the program more effective. The PART therefore looks at all factors that affect and reflect program performance including program purpose and design; performance measurement, evaluations, and strategic planning; program management; and program results. Because the PART includes a consistent series of analytical questions, it allows programs to show improvements over time, and allows comparisons between similar programs.}

When other institutions are directing these programs, they cannot be evaluated and their efforts are often duplicated to already funded programs serving the same community.  At the same time, these programs may not have the oversight of possible abuses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe there should be any government funding to religious institutions.  These institutions should be supported by their congregations and their communities for any activities they wish to pursue.</p>
<p>Our government has already mandated federal programs and their funding in their Federal Annual Budgets.  Church members are always welcome to volunteer their time to these programs.</p>
<p>The government provides for evaluation of these programs to determine their effectiveness and possible duplicity with other programs through PART (Program Assessment Rating Tool) Website : ExpectMore.com.</p>
<p>{The Program Assessment Rating Tool (PART) was developed to assess and improve program performance so that the Federal government can achieve better results. A PART review helps identify a program’s strengths and weaknesses to inform funding and management decisions aimed at making the program more effective. The PART therefore looks at all factors that affect and reflect program performance including program purpose and design; performance measurement, evaluations, and strategic planning; program management; and program results. Because the PART includes a consistent series of analytical questions, it allows programs to show improvements over time, and allows comparisons between similar programs.}</p>
<p>When other institutions are directing these programs, they cannot be evaluated and their efforts are often duplicated to already funded programs serving the same community.  At the same time, these programs may not have the oversight of possible abuses.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-9887</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-9887</guid>
		<description>Becca -

The problem here is not 'the student taking the wafer from the service he was in.' The problem rather is here: the student took Jesus Christ --- who is present and vulnerable in the Eucharist species, that is, bread and wine --- from the Sacrifice of the Mass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Becca -</p>
<p>The problem here is not &#8216;the student taking the wafer from the service he was in.&#8217; The problem rather is here: the student took Jesus Christ &#8212; who is present and vulnerable in the Eucharist species, that is, bread and wine &#8212; from the Sacrifice of the Mass.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave C.</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-9827</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-9827</guid>
		<description>Father, you may be right about this. I don't usually agree with clergy on many thigns, but it seems that you have taken the time to look at this issue deeply. Also, thanks for knowing your Constitution and you Bible. 

All that said, Obama has it backwards, the governemnt should fund ALL faith-based programs. Not just Christian ones. Of course, thanks to our fantastically ill-educated Congress, all Islamic based programs won't see anything anyway. Not that anyone should protect their privavy right? 

In any case, by funding everybody it us clean on the Law and with whichever God you choose. By telling any church, the government will monitor how you operate is about a second away from dictating how that church should be ran. And unless Obama wants a "national" religion like in Britain, or umm Nazi Germany....then he is wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Father, you may be right about this. I don&#8217;t usually agree with clergy on many thigns, but it seems that you have taken the time to look at this issue deeply. Also, thanks for knowing your Constitution and you Bible. </p>
<p>All that said, Obama has it backwards, the governemnt should fund ALL faith-based programs. Not just Christian ones. Of course, thanks to our fantastically ill-educated Congress, all Islamic based programs won&#8217;t see anything anyway. Not that anyone should protect their privavy right? </p>
<p>In any case, by funding everybody it us clean on the Law and with whichever God you choose. By telling any church, the government will monitor how you operate is about a second away from dictating how that church should be ran. And unless Obama wants a &#8220;national&#8221; religion like in Britain, or umm Nazi Germany&#8230;.then he is wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice R.</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-9755</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-9755</guid>
		<description>Obama said America's problems were too big to solve through government alone. "I believe that change comes not from the top down but from the bottom up, and few are closer to the people than our churches, synagogues, temples, and mosques," he said, during a visit to Eastside Community Ministry in Zanesville, Ohio. 
Obama's faith and spiritual leader are from the Trinity Church of Chicago which is based on liberation theology, a form of socialistic marxism. The bottom up change he speaks of could be a code word for Marxism.  Obama could be spreading Marxism (Liberation theology) using your tax dollars.
The first two paragraphs came from a NOOBAMA web site, one that hasn't been shut down yet. This is a fact of what Obama and his associates, who will resurface as soon as the election is over, are pushing for. We should run as fast as we can, from what generations in this great country have fought and died to keep from our borders. It is attacking from within, from those that have benefited the most from our generosity and freedom. This is one program that needs to be rethought out or abolished all together, charities and churches have for many years, been able without a partisan government agency, to help those in need. If they can't, then try something besides a marxest, fashist, socialist Obama program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama said America&#8217;s problems were too big to solve through government alone. &#8220;I believe that change comes not from the top down but from the bottom up, and few are closer to the people than our churches, synagogues, temples, and mosques,&#8221; he said, during a visit to Eastside Community Ministry in Zanesville, Ohio.<br />
Obama&#8217;s faith and spiritual leader are from the Trinity Church of Chicago which is based on liberation theology, a form of socialistic marxism. The bottom up change he speaks of could be a code word for Marxism.  Obama could be spreading Marxism (Liberation theology) using your tax dollars.<br />
The first two paragraphs came from a NOOBAMA web site, one that hasn&#8217;t been shut down yet. This is a fact of what Obama and his associates, who will resurface as soon as the election is over, are pushing for. We should run as fast as we can, from what generations in this great country have fought and died to keep from our borders. It is attacking from within, from those that have benefited the most from our generosity and freedom. This is one program that needs to be rethought out or abolished all together, charities and churches have for many years, been able without a partisan government agency, to help those in need. If they can&#8217;t, then try something besides a marxest, fashist, socialist Obama program.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Roy</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-9646</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 03:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-9646</guid>
		<description>My former hometown, Bay St. Louis, MS., was decimated by Hurricane Katrina. In its wide arc of destruction there was no power, no water, no food, no infrastructure, and it was beastly hot. To this ruined landscape came busloads of "church people" and other volunteer organizations, who lived in conditions worse than many of us, and they set up kitchens and cooked and distributed  meals, gave out clothing, ice water, etc.  I was truly amazed at their endurance, selfless dedication, and willingness to help. Many went out in the community and started helping people clean up, patch and rebuild what was left of their homes. FEMA and the Red Cross, while helpful, took time to get things set up and running and weren't available immediately following the storm. These kind people took time off work, vacation time, unpaid leave, etc. to come down and help, and paid for all the food, water and gas themselves or through donations. They were truly among the "first responders". This disaster would have been so much worse without them. When I commented to one lady about the efficiency of the operation, she said, "this is my fifth hurricane, and you get to know what people need after a while." 

I thought at the time how foolish not to reimburse them for what they provided, so they could continue to help others or expand their operations. They charge nothing for their time or expenses. You just can't beat a deal like that. I can't think of a better or more effective way to spend taxpayer money.  You can argue this issue to death, but if you are involved in a disaster, you will quickly put aside your political, social and religious predjudices and just be really happy to see them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My former hometown, Bay St. Louis, MS., was decimated by Hurricane Katrina. In its wide arc of destruction there was no power, no water, no food, no infrastructure, and it was beastly hot. To this ruined landscape came busloads of &#8220;church people&#8221; and other volunteer organizations, who lived in conditions worse than many of us, and they set up kitchens and cooked and distributed  meals, gave out clothing, ice water, etc.  I was truly amazed at their endurance, selfless dedication, and willingness to help. Many went out in the community and started helping people clean up, patch and rebuild what was left of their homes. FEMA and the Red Cross, while helpful, took time to get things set up and running and weren&#8217;t available immediately following the storm. These kind people took time off work, vacation time, unpaid leave, etc. to come down and help, and paid for all the food, water and gas themselves or through donations. They were truly among the &#8220;first responders&#8221;. This disaster would have been so much worse without them. When I commented to one lady about the efficiency of the operation, she said, &#8220;this is my fifth hurricane, and you get to know what people need after a while.&#8221; </p>
<p>I thought at the time how foolish not to reimburse them for what they provided, so they could continue to help others or expand their operations. They charge nothing for their time or expenses. You just can&#8217;t beat a deal like that. I can&#8217;t think of a better or more effective way to spend taxpayer money.  You can argue this issue to death, but if you are involved in a disaster, you will quickly put aside your political, social and religious predjudices and just be really happy to see them.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Murphy</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-9460</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-9460</guid>
		<description>The federal government exerts its influence through the power of the purse.  "As a person who used to teach Constiutional law" (really) Federal funding is akin to crack cocaine--once an entity gets hooked, it is difficult to get off of it--therefore, the real danger of the entire "faith-based" initiative is that the program will ultimately alter the religion it "supports."  Case in point is how federal funding has diminished the "Catholicity" of various Catholic relief agencies and health organizations over issues like abortion and homosexual rights.  Justice Burger actually understood this danger and discussed it as the basis for some of the early decisions that limited funding for Catholic schools (and created the "Lemon test" that has been somewhat abandoned by the court).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The federal government exerts its influence through the power of the purse.  &#8220;As a person who used to teach Constiutional law&#8221; (really) Federal funding is akin to crack cocaine&#8211;once an entity gets hooked, it is difficult to get off of it&#8211;therefore, the real danger of the entire &#8220;faith-based&#8221; initiative is that the program will ultimately alter the religion it &#8220;supports.&#8221;  Case in point is how federal funding has diminished the &#8220;Catholicity&#8221; of various Catholic relief agencies and health organizations over issues like abortion and homosexual rights.  Justice Burger actually understood this danger and discussed it as the basis for some of the early decisions that limited funding for Catholic schools (and created the &#8220;Lemon test&#8221; that has been somewhat abandoned by the court).</p>
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		<title>By: Becca</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-9274</link>
		<dc:creator>Becca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-9274</guid>
		<description>About the Comment by Terry 

What exactly is the problem with the student taking the wafer from the service he was in?  To many people it seems disrespectful and in bad taste, but the deeper problems and anger felt by many Catholics is not easy to understand.  I hope Father Jonathan will take the time to explain it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the Comment by Terry </p>
<p>What exactly is the problem with the student taking the wafer from the service he was in?  To many people it seems disrespectful and in bad taste, but the deeper problems and anger felt by many Catholics is not easy to understand.  I hope Father Jonathan will take the time to explain it all.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-9273</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-9273</guid>
		<description>It amazes me how people who profess to love and revere the Constitution really know very little about it.  Folks, the words "separation of church and state" are nowhere to be found in the U.S. Constitution.  The only 2 things the U.S. Constitution says about religion is that the government can neither establish an official national religion, nor prohibit the free exercise of any religion.  If you really love that document as much as you say, try picking up a copy and reading it once in your lifetime.

People come to America for all kinds of reasons, from freedom seekers who want to establish a better life for themselves and their descendants, to freedom haters who come here seeking to destroy our way of life.  But originally, folks came here to escape religious persecution.  This is because all those enlightened Europeans had established official, state-sanctioned religions.  If you wanted to worship God, you did so in the manner, place and time that the government dictated.

So how do faith-based initiatives establish a national religion?  Simply put, they don't.  How do they prevent the free exercise of religion?  Again, they don't.  Every day in this country, courts read and interpret laws according to the ordinary and obvious meaning of the words they contain.  They do not read into them something that is not there, and they do not ignore something that obviously is.

Except for the U.S. Constitution:  the supreme law of the land.  In that case everyone is an expert and everyone has  an opinion.  Most of these opinions are based upon emotion rather than the wording of the actual Constitution, which the majority of Americans have never read.  Take this document for what it is and what it means.  It stands alone as the greatest guarantor of individual freedoms this planet has ever seen.  Stop grafting your own prejudices onto it, stop reading your preconceived notions into it, and stop using it as weapon.  Quit adding to and subtracting from it unless you are willing to officially Amend it.  It was written by the finest minds of that generation is already quite complete.  The only thing you can do with your "interpetations" is mess it up for everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It amazes me how people who profess to love and revere the Constitution really know very little about it.  Folks, the words &#8220;separation of church and state&#8221; are nowhere to be found in the U.S. Constitution.  The only 2 things the U.S. Constitution says about religion is that the government can neither establish an official national religion, nor prohibit the free exercise of any religion.  If you really love that document as much as you say, try picking up a copy and reading it once in your lifetime.</p>
<p>People come to America for all kinds of reasons, from freedom seekers who want to establish a better life for themselves and their descendants, to freedom haters who come here seeking to destroy our way of life.  But originally, folks came here to escape religious persecution.  This is because all those enlightened Europeans had established official, state-sanctioned religions.  If you wanted to worship God, you did so in the manner, place and time that the government dictated.</p>
<p>So how do faith-based initiatives establish a national religion?  Simply put, they don&#8217;t.  How do they prevent the free exercise of religion?  Again, they don&#8217;t.  Every day in this country, courts read and interpret laws according to the ordinary and obvious meaning of the words they contain.  They do not read into them something that is not there, and they do not ignore something that obviously is.</p>
<p>Except for the U.S. Constitution:  the supreme law of the land.  In that case everyone is an expert and everyone has  an opinion.  Most of these opinions are based upon emotion rather than the wording of the actual Constitution, which the majority of Americans have never read.  Take this document for what it is and what it means.  It stands alone as the greatest guarantor of individual freedoms this planet has ever seen.  Stop grafting your own prejudices onto it, stop reading your preconceived notions into it, and stop using it as weapon.  Quit adding to and subtracting from it unless you are willing to officially Amend it.  It was written by the finest minds of that generation is already quite complete.  The only thing you can do with your &#8220;interpetations&#8221; is mess it up for everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Gray</title>
		<link>http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/07/faithless-faith-based-initiatives/#comment-9272</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foxforum.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-9272</guid>
		<description>I do not trust The Government of God for any reason.

One only needs to look to the Government of Gods' term Sanctuary and thus Sanctuary Cities as  proof of how un-trustworthy the Governmof God really is. The term Sanctuary (here not applied to animals) means-a concecrated place (as part of a church in which the alter is placed). 

In middle ages the Government of God and the European Government of Man came to an agreement about the ability of the Government of God to offer sanctuary to a person being sought by the Government of Man. But the Government of Man placed a resriction on the Government of God that the person being sought "must have their hands on the alter or be in the confessional'. No other sanctuary was to be given.  

Over time The Government of God expanded its agreement with the Government of Man to include the building that the alter is in, the property that the building sits on, and the city where the property is located.  This was forced upon Europe and is one of the main reasons Europe has been kept so small.

The Government of God is thus placing a-lien upon the Rights of the Government of Man in Europe.  

We Americans proclaimed to all the bugs, all the insects, all the fish, all the animals, all the humans, and all the Gods/God that our Rights were and are UN-A-LIEN-ABLE.    Come on Up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not trust The Government of God for any reason.</p>
<p>One only needs to look to the Government of Gods&#8217; term Sanctuary and thus Sanctuary Cities as  proof of how un-trustworthy the Governmof God really is. The term Sanctuary (here not applied to animals) means-a concecrated place (as part of a church in which the alter is placed). </p>
<p>In middle ages the Government of God and the European Government of Man came to an agreement about the ability of the Government of God to offer sanctuary to a person being sought by the Government of Man. But the Government of Man placed a resriction on the Government of God that the person being sought &#8220;must have their hands on the alter or be in the confessional&#8217;. No other sanctuary was to be given.  </p>
<p>Over time The Government of God expanded its agreement with the Government of Man to include the building that the alter is in, the property that the building sits on, and the city where the property is located.  This was forced upon Europe and is one of the main reasons Europe has been kept so small.</p>
<p>The Government of God is thus placing a-lien upon the Rights of the Government of Man in Europe.  </p>
<p>We Americans proclaimed to all the bugs, all the insects, all the fish, all the animals, all the humans, and all the Gods/God that our Rights were and are UN-A-LIEN-ABLE.    Come on Up.</p>
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