The whole idea of faith-based is to control the CHRISTIAN church ! The time is coming quicker
than we want to admit,when Christians are going to have to meet secretly for fear of persecution.
The church is becoming a mockery,but my God says He will not be mocked !!

How sad that there is only a “FEW” Christians in goverment. A nation that turns it’s back on God
and His teachings will fall, and become inglorious, injudicious, and insignificant !!!

I’m no fan of Cal Thomas, but in this, at least, he has been consistent–writing columns opposing faith-based government initiatives at least as far back as July 2001 (”Why does church need state?” and October 2002 (”Faith-based initiative: Noble idea fraught with problems.” As often as Cal is wrong–most tragically in his promotion and support of the Iraq War–we can give him a little credit when he’s right.

To Al…again. I received a good article for you to read today. You can read it at this link:
http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=8110#
If it doesn’t come through as a hyperlink just copy and paste it into your browser. Colson articulates a great case for acknowledging the Creator, and or ‘Nature’s God’ Jefferson himself refers to in the Declaration of Independence.

It’s amusing to me, watching the liberal left try and paint the Obama movement in the colors of stained-glass windows. It’s almost hilarious watching the nervous ticks and shakes showing up behind the forced smiles of his followers as they hoist posters of their “Christian”, church-going condidate. The fact that John McCain is forging his way through all the rhetoric and drama, and addressing issues head on with decades of experience under his belt, almost has them speaking in tongues! How does the democratic party even attempt to proclaim any kind of relation to Christianity when compared to the issues for which they so jealously defend? How many of their causes go hand in hand with what the Word of God teaches us? Loving one’s neighbor doesn’t mean we empty our heads of any reasoning and blindly accept and condone obvious afronts to God’s edicts. Jabbing scissors into baby’s heads before they exit the birth canal, banning Christian themes during CHRISTmas in our schools and communities, erroding/ridiculing established family values and touting gay lifestyles as normal and healthy, teaching false sciences such as global warming and evolution, knowing full well that the most prominent of scientists need more faith for those theories than the average Christian does for his/her belief in God, etc… For decades, little by little, they’ve taken grand piles of dog poo and slathered on all kinds of wholesome, pretty colors. Yet underneath it all, it’s still dog poo. Having an opened mind is fine and even admirable. Yet when it gets to the point that most of the brains have leaked out, it becomes scary. Even scarier is the fact that they don’t seem to notice it… or they hope we don’t notice it. It must be true what they say, if a nation turns it’s back on God, He robs it’s leaders of wisdom.

RESPONSE TO ALAN JACKMAN TELLING BOBCARP TO ” ENJOY HELL”… We as true Bible Believers are to preach the word in season out of season, that we might by some means save some! Not to smash people who you are no better or worse than you (there is none righteous no not one… it is Gods grace alone that saves us!) with harmful attacks like “ENJOY HELL”. We are commanded to walk in wisdom toward them that are without and In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. Mr. Jackman Jesus loves Bobcarp and shed his blood for him so he would never “SUFFER IN HELL” just like He did for all humanity! I hope you read 1John and see if you have this love of Christ in you. You do owe Bobcarp an apology…. You have not represented the One true God of the Holy Bible - John 4:24

“… I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” -Lord Jesus

” This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.” - 2Timothy 3:1

“… but the word of God is not bound.” - 2TImothy 2:9

“And he that sat upon the throne said. Behold. I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of life freely.” - Revelation 21:5-6

-We know the end of the story!

” Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.” - No one in D.C. or anywhere else can change these truths so……… ” Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.” 2Timothy

Who is John Galt?

BTW, I’m also amazed that Ayn Rand fans are not cognizant of her stance on religion…

I think we’ve all seen what Obama’s idea of faith and Christianity are. There are many left-wing groups who claim to be faith based and it wouldn’t take long for MoveOn.org to create something. Don’t you believe for an instance that these groups would be Christian — how many faiths are there?

Cal, usually you’re right on the nose but you need to rethink this one.

You’re putting God in a box. God will accomplish His will in His way - not yours. Who are we to say that His will isn’t accomplished through, say, Christians in government? Believe it or not, there may well be a few.

Terms… Terms… In political science Nation is the population of a territory with common bonds (usually ethnic, the US being different common ideals). The state is the government of a territory.

The US could be considered a Christian nation if the majority are Christian. The state was designed to be separate, with no national church of state church as is in Europe (that is the separation of chruch and state). Men of faith man the organs of the state, and hope make wise informed decisions.

Christianity was derived from the Jewish faith, hence Judeo-Christian values derived from the commonality of the two faiths. Christ came to fullfil the law and free us from it, Judaism still abides from the law and the customs of Judaism. The doctrinal and customs differences derive from the fact that Christianity is an evangelically religion (the Great Commission), Judaism is not. Christianity accepts other customs if they don’t violate the Gospel to facilitate other groups acceptance of the Gospel. For instance food customs, the orthodox Jews keep Kosher (the rules regarding food), Christians can keep kosher or not. Keeping kosher will prevent many food borne illness, and if it helps you accept the Gopel and move closer to God, it is good. If not it makes no difference.

Where does one start to define much less review the wide variety of views, opinions that have been expressed here? You have pro con to almost every conceivable thought on Religion/State. You even have an Atheist putting their two cents into it! This tells me that Mr. Thomas has really hit a sore spot. I’m honest enough to say that I have not read each and every post. But enough to see the thread of the discussion. Caleb post hit closer to the reality in attempting to actually respond to the comments made by Mr. Thomas. That there are strings attached when dealing with the state, goes without question. However, faith based initiatives were put in place to allow for religiously based organizations who were already in the business of helping people to continue to do so, but in an expanded fashion with increased resources. You would actually have a better chance to win the lottery then see the state admit to not being able to handle any and every situation that arises in any facet of society. However, this is exactly what happened? Oddly, you actually had someone in the state admit to the fact that faith based organizations were actually better at it then they were! When we lose sight that the purpose was not the dollars in themselves, but the ability to truly help people, you then begin to understand the rationale behind this initiative.

I appreciate that I live in a country where we still have freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

Many of the above comments I read sadden me, because we cannot seem to share our views without demeaning others.

Ashram B. Hadidi: 1) “Why is it that the dumbest people always have the biggest mouths.” and ” 2) Also, to the moderator, this comment is not unlawful, threatening, libelous, or obscene, so it not appearing will indicate to me some pretty foul racism/intolerance (but not you, sir, correct?) at your little “news” organization. Tell Rupert I said, “Arrrrrrr.”” (Mr. Hadidi, I think your first point was made by your second. Is your threatening tone to the moderator the way you would convince us to follow the Koran?)

bobcarp: “gods are myths people. It’s the 21st Century. Let’s try to catch up” (Your OPINION, bobcarp. We all have one. Prove your theory instead of belittling those who do not share it.)

We have many and varied opinions. Let us allow those who hold different opinions than our own the courtesy to let them share their views without blathering such as the above mentioned comments.

Right on!

We have lost our way spiritually, morally, and have turned away from our founding principles that catapulted our nation, in such a relatively short period of time (232 years), to greatness and an example to the rest of the world. Liberalism is a cancer that is eating away at the very heart and soul of our nation. We must return to the ideals and principles that made us such a shinning example to the rest of the world.

Using federal taxpayer’s money for church based “faith initiatives” is wrong on so many levels. The bottom line here is that doing so will corrupt the church and empower the government over them.

First Amendment: addresses the rights of freedom of religion (prohibiting Congressional establishment of a religion over another religion through Law and protecting the right to free exercise of religion), freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of petition.

This is word for word in the Bill of Rights and amazingly, some Christians continues to INTERPRET to suit their belief. This is nothing new. Indeed, the father of the constitution, James Madison, was a deist, which was 18th century code for “agnostic.” If you’ve studied any history at all, you’ll realize that a few ministers of the day complained that the Constitution didn’t mention God at all, to which Thomas Jefferson (another deist) famously replied (I’m paraphrasing), “I’m pretty sure we mentioned him twice, actually.” No doubt, some Christians will continue to be troubled by a CREATOR (another name for deity). As Columbus’noble purposes, go back and read a little bit about how Indians and native Caribean islands were treated. I am glad that I am living in the 21st century and in this great country where all voices are heard including Christians.

Can all of you say “Hell in a Handbasket”

You and others who have commented on your article have given many excellent responses on the issue of government sponsored faith initiatives. I am not in favor of them for all of the abovementioned reasons stated by others including yourself. There is one exception, however, and that was the comment by bobkarp. Is this the typical response to the gospel according to bobkarp or the gospel of Sen. Obama and the secular far left? If it is, and I’m inclined to believe it is, you are terribly naive, sir, to think that any government, even the U.S., would not someday in the very near future use state sponsored religion to control its citizens through programs like this and through taxation. Does Iran evoke any red flags for you?

Government doesn’t control God, but if you don’t let God into the Government, as we currently don’t as it seems very apparent, then of course we will suffer the consequences. There is but one true God, and He works within all of us if we let Him. Open your hearts, minds and souls. Now is the time.

George Mueller, that Godly man from Bristol, England, back in the 1800’s, built orphanages to house scores of British children who were abandoned to the streets and headed for lives of crime and misery. Did he do it through a “faith-based progoram”? He sure did: George Mueller never told a soul he needed money–he went directly to the Lord and literally prayed in thousands of dollars. A documentary of his life is called “Robber of the Cruel Streets.” Because that is exactly what he did: robbed the streets of these precious children who would otherwise be doomed. The problem we face today is no different. It is our approach to the problem that is off track: we think God needs the government’s help. How stupid! If He is “the same yesterday, today and forever.” (Hebrews 13:8), why do Christians think they need to involve the government. We “receive not because we ask not”. George Mueller’s God is just as able today as He was back then. If we would “render to Caesar the things that are Caesars and to God the things that are God’s,” (Mark 12:17), there would never be cause to ask Caesar for help!

Why is ok for George Bush to provide government funds to faith based organizations and not Barack Obama? Is it because he’ll provide money to liberal faith based groups? Let’s stop this constant liberal vs. conservative argument and look at an idea for what it’s worth. If it was a great idea the first time, it should be a great idea now.

To Al. If you read many of the quotes you included in your rather synical treatise, many of them are merely emphasizing the danger of a state established religion or church or the intermingling of the two. This was, I believe, the same point Cal was trying to make. And it is important to note that just because Jefferson said those things, doesn’t make them true. Jefferson, while a great man, had his weaknesses too you know. And if I had time, I could point you to as many quotes from the founding fathers in support of faith in the God of the Bible as a foundation for our democracy, as those you cited that seem to be in opposition of it.
All of that aside…you, like many unbelievers choose to ignore the fact that the historicity of the Bible is overwhelmingly substantiated by the archeological record. To me, it takes a lot more faith to believe the whole something from nothing argument of evolutionists than it does to believe in an all-powerful creator. Many evolutionist are forced to admit, solely on the knowledge of the DNA sequence, that there must be a designer behind it. There is simply too much information in the right order for it to have evolved on its own. You said you were ‘leaning toward not’ when it comes to God. I would strongly suggest, before you make your final decision, that you read a book called The Case for Faith by Lee Stroebel. Lee was an atheist who, after his wife’s conversion to Christianity, did his own exhaustive research on the claims of the Bible, and wound up believing. He wasn’t leaning toward faith at all at the outset, but he is just one of millions who demonstrate the power of God to change lives. I choose to believe in God not only because of the overwhelming evidence of his activity in human history, but because I experience his presence in my life every day, and see his activity over and over again…too many times to ignore or call coincidence. I will pray for you, because when it comes to the question of God or no God, eternity is an awfully long time to spend wishing you had made a different decision.

To everyone who uses the first admendment to point out the seperation between church and state….. I promise you our founding fathers are turning over in their graves for even making that comment in the constitution because we have perversed it well beyond what they intended. None of them meant our government should be God-less, they just simply wanted to prevent some pope or bishop or religious organization from controlling the gov. They fully intended the people who were elected into office to be men of God and to seek His guidance in ruling this country.

I do have to agree that the faith based programs have been all but successful. In my opinion, because of all the corruption in american government. How much money that is designated for faith based programs actually goes into the pocket of the officiating officer of that program?

As far as Obama or McCain… I don’t think either of them will accomplish much of anything in their presidency. I think either way america is looking at 4 years of dark ages. The economy cannot be fixed in 4 years, the war cannot be solved in 4 years, I don’t think either will work to protect life or marriage. I have already decided that in november I am voting against who i don’t want to be president, not for whom I want to be president.

Cal is very accurate in his asessment of what happens when the Church and State forget their proper roles. My only question is, why didn’t he speak up earlier when the current president (in my opinion) decided to use the Christian right to advance his own personal agenda and the agenda of the greedy segment of Corporate America, regardless to the consequnces and regardless to how that agenda matched up with true Christian principles. Just maybe we would have had a real enargy policy for America and just maybe we would not have wasted human, financial, and moral resources in Iraq.(Again, this is just the opinion of a true disciple.)

The massive expansion of the government’s involvement in our lives is the new, and obviously more acceptable form of slavery. The number of people that are dependent upon government programs is growing daily, so it’s pretty popular and generally accepted. With few exceptions, once people get on these programs, they never leave. The programs are structured to keep people in them. It’s modern day slavery.

Cal is one of the few voices articulating my point of view on a national stage. I am a committed, born again Christian, but I have never believed that we need to make America a “Christian” nation. Take a quick look at history to see what happens when a church/state hybrid is attempted. It’s not pretty. I think genuine Christians have a positive influence on American society, but they also recognize that they cannot legislate Christian virtues into the lives of people who have no appetite for them. Real change starts at the grassroots level, one transformed life and family at a time. Thank you, Cal.

I agree with your statement, but wish to add, that a lot of people are going to be surprised at what Obama’s faith based plan will include. I can bet, Rev. Wright and his man Phleger, along with Lewis Farrakhan, will be the first to distribute our tax dollars for their activist, faith based causes. What we the people see as in need or wanting, is not what they think as deserving. Voters need to see beyond the cheap talk, the choreographed speeches and remember his roots. This man is a crisis waiting to happen. You judge a mans character by his associates, and he has distanced himself from those people, and they will be back, and they are still his comrades. Don’t kid yourselves. He can walk the walk and talk the talk when need be. Our taxes will go to every third world country, to strengthen the spread of socialism, and also to further it’s grip in this country. There are so few voices during this election speaking the truth. Most of the media are biased, and are furthering their own left leaning beliefs. They tingle when Obama speaks. If I said I would only vote for someone that wore a purple hat, and wouldn’t consider anyone else no matter what. People would think I was crazy….but this is what is happening now. When I read that ABC banned flag pins, because they didn’t want to support “causes”, what causes that you respect the greatest country ever. PLEASE think about the faith based causes of this new (could be) government of change, has in mind. Ask some questions. Why would they support a George Bush program?

Obama is soooooo confused. Who does he think the first responders are during a catastrophic event? Guess what? CHRISTIANS are on the move before anyone else because they don’t have to have meetings on what to do. We already know and we are already there. The government can stay out of our way. We will continue to to God’s work without them. Thank you very much.

Thank you Cal, again!

Are you saying that you would support the removal of the government, financially and vocally, from pro-life and anti-gay marriage organizations? It doesn’t get much more “faith-based” than that, but I bet you could find a way to make it work, right? Cal, always so judgmental, incredibly hypocritical.

Im gonna echo ‘ConcernedEngineer’ on this one.

He wrote:

“I agree with Cal, but I will say that Christians who express agreement with him on this issue - and then turn around and show their pathetic dependency on the government by sending their kids to public schools - are being hypocrites. How about responding positively to God’s Word, rather than going with the flow of culture and rendering our convenant children to the secular state?”

Adults, particularly parents who claim to follow Jesus Christ, but do not integrate the biblical basis for their faith into their choices are largely to blame for the moral decline in America. Because we have been apathetic about the things the world teaches - assuming that Christianity is little more than a belief in the name Jesus (which unfortunately has come to mean far too many things) - the world is shaping the minds of the next generation and not God’s word.

Public schools spend 40 hours a week 3/4 of the year for 12 of the most formative years of your childrens life ‘educating them about facts’ while churches get 1.5 hours a week at most ‘talking to them about religion’.

Our public schools teach them that they descended from goo that gradually turned into monkeys, that if their parents tell them two men marrying each other is wrong that their parents are bad people, that sex is ok before marriage, that social clicks are ok, that a human inside a womb is no more than tissue, and that religion has nothing to do with education and your ability to function in life - other than providing some token emotional comfort - and we sit back and look at a few unfashionable quasi-amish homeschooled families or private schools and say I don’t want that because it’s different.

Nicely said.

Absurd! The pot seems to be calling the kettle black! What has the Bush administration been doing for the past eight years other than connecting faith based organizations and government. Absolutely absurd, illogical, shameless commentary.

‘Bob’, perhaps you could try a less patronising tone. More than 5 billion people believe in some sort of ‘god’ - and everyone lives in the 21st century. Your intimation that people who are not atheist are not living in the twenty-first century is ridiculous and makes no sense.

Well said, Cal!

Asrham,
This Jesus character is the only “character” through whom you will ever see your Allah.

I agree with your comment in general.
However I disagree that “cozying up” with the Government MIGHT get some benefit. Specifically, all the actions taken by the ACLU and others to remove long-standing religious icons from public view. Secondly the virtual OUTLAWING of Christian related subjects in the school yet Muslem being quite acceptable. Public values and morals are going down the drain (for instance the Supreme Court ruling that the death penalty CANNOT be given to a child rapist). In my PERSONAL opinion all these actions HAVE MOVED the United States from a nation UNDER God, to a nation WITH NO GOD…and as a nation that HAS TURNED ITS BACK TO GOD, he will punish.

Boy Ashram, your arrogance sure is convincing. It definitely backs up a lot of people’s belief that all Muslims are angry and combative.

You are right, and smacks of the violation of seperation. This is also true of the “faith based” programs. Religion is covertly crossing the lines to influance government, governing bodies and individuals. It is a ploy by the wolves of religion to infiltrate government.
Thank God for the seperation of church and state.

Dear Mr. Thomas:

There certainly is validity to the argument that faith-based organizations need to keep their independence and focus on their unique goals — which are mostly far different from the goals of the government and especially politicians. But as our culture has moved away from one where churches took care of a lot of social issues (as they did in the past) and that became the responsibility of the government, and as the government has in many ways failed to succeed in that, there is some value in faith-based groups interested in contributing, partnering with the government to meet those needs. As long as the faith-based groups are not dependent solely on government funding and are not controlled by it, then I don’t think it is all wrong. Some of them use the funding far more efficiently and wisely than the government has. It is wrong to assume that in all cases where such partnership or funding occurs, corruption occurs. And it is wrong to assume that God cannot use the government to provide the funding such groups are praying for. The Lord works in mysterious ways and surprising ways, and we are in no position to question Him, when that occurs.

I absolutely agree 100%. Whomever you are beholden too, you are owned by!

So Obama want to continue the aid to faith based group. Doesn’t this mean he is just a continuation of eight years of G. W. Bush that he accuses the other side over?

To Bobcarp:
God is real. Enjoy Hell.

Some of you people are real idiots. He is just saying the two don’t mix. He isn’t bashing Christians so telling him to get out of our country is completely ingnorant. They should be a rule on this website that only lets people who can actually read AND comprehend what is being said. I am a devoted Christian and I agree with him. Oh and DOWN WITH ISLAM!

So does this mean that the President of the U.S. should reside in the Vatican?

Oh I forgot, he splits his time between Rome and Jerusalem.

George Washington warned, “A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master.” Cal Thomas gives great insight into the dangers of letting the government control faith through it’s funding. I wish a statesman like Cal Thomas was on the ballot for president.

So Al, WOW….its amazing when taken out of context(and in your case totally misquoted)writings of Jefferson and others. You speak to the uneducated, and those who wont take a second to research the actual facts of the matter, and instead take your word for it. But there is a little thing called history, that gets in the way of what you are saying..with this in mind allow me to retort! 1st, why are there no churches in Washington DC that are dated before 1837? What was used to hold these church services? What money was used to fund the CHRISTIAN services that were also attended by the men you listed above? The answer is simple: GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS, GOVERNMENT MONEY(tax dollars)! Govenment printing presses were used to print Bible’s that were used in schools as a REQUIRED text book for children to read. All under the watchful eyes of men who founded this country..LOOK IT UP AL! Stop misinforming people about the facts. Open a book. But I am probably wasting my time anyway, you are not interested in the facts. You already have your mind made up about this. As for mr Hadidi’s assertion that people who cannot spell or use punctuation, are wrong in thier philosophy….Can you find me an original copy of the koran in its “True” form? I didnt think so, so why are you beleiving in something that cant even be used for reference. There are so many contridictions in the koran, and to ask a “scholar”…you will get 57 different answers for 57 different “scholars”. I am sorry, but there is only one true God and his name is Yaweh…..The God of the Bible.

Well, I’ll be damned. Cal, you actually wrote something that made sense. I only hope that this is a genuine statement instead of a pandering move to the center as the Repug’s sun begins to set, long, long hot drought that it’s been…trying to assure continued employment after Obama is elected, perhaps?

“Separation of church and faith” has been used to remove religion from institutions of daily life. The truth is that religion was a part of day-to-day life (i.e. education) long before government injected itself into all aspects. Instead of removing “religion”, let’s get the government out of our schools, court houses, hospitals, etc. Only then will Americans be allowed to worship freely.

It’s not compassionate conservatism when it’s other people’s money. You’re not showing compassion or demonstrating conservatism when you seize a portion of a person’s income against their will. Especially when this seizure is accomplished via the threat of incarceration and at the point of a gun, ie. the federal imperial government. Confiscation of achievers’ income against their will to distribute to non-achievers’ is a gigantic vote buying scam perpetuated by both major political parties in this country. Calling it “faith-based programs” or “compassionate conservatism” doesn’t change the facts. We’re still getting hosed regardless of who is running the show. George W. and the Republican-led Congress a few years ago effectively killed the conservative movement in this nation, if not the Republican party, with this nonsense of “faith-based programs” and “compassionate conservatism”.

Cal, it’s ironic that, now that the Democrats may be making inroads with Christians, you are suddenly concerned about Christian cozying up to government. You do you look in the mirror and keep a straight face?

SO TRUE , Cal . i have NOT been pleased with “faith-based” government hand-outs . the idea sounds good , and appears good . As you say , next pres. , if a demagogue , will abuse the power of control.
After nearly 50 yrs of life , i can say LONG before government severely over taxed , people GAVE and that money goes much farther out to people in true need : NEED , not VOTES .
keep preaching rev. Cal !

Separation of church and state is a basic principle of the founding father’s design of our government. That principle needs to be maintained at all costs. Religious organiztions recieve tax exempt status thus they should not be taxpayer funded. Furthermore, faith based organizations have no business in the political arena. Government and religion need to stay separate.

I understand your point, yet so long as we live in a democratic society, such ungainly instability shall be the rule of the day. Hence I am an ultramontane monarchist. Vive le Roi, anyone?

I find myself increasingly disgusted with the democratic process, and decreasingly impressed with the performance of the electorate, and the wisdom of modern man. We seem to have lost wisdom in the pursuit of knowledge. Additionally, the American left-right divide is based upon such strange and arbitrary lines (and I am a native Texan), I fear that we have dark days ahead of us.

Vive Christus Rex atque Pontifex Suus. Vive Rex mundialis noster Louis XX.

Going back to Cal’s article, I agree too. Well said. We ALWAYS become dependent on those who pay the bills for us. When we become dependent, we have to either bow to the whims of the benefactor, or lose our funding. I think Cal spoke very well about how those whims can change with the tides of politics.

God still doesn’t need the help of government, and we better not continue to as individuals either!

Frederic Bastiat (1846) said “Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.” Once we start down the road of asking the government to act as our parent (provider) we give the invitation to allow those who are power drunken bureaucrats to become the abusive parents.

The idea that we are all fighting over what we are entitled to receive from the government coffers is the development that would make the founders roll over in their graves.

Cal,

Your comments are well taken. We, Christians, are human like all others. We often look to human means to see needs supplied. We must look to the Lord.

David

I got an idea, lets don’t make taxpayers pay taxes to pay these faith-based programs (such as salvation army, homeless shelters, etc.) . let them use the money to pay charities of their own choice.

I got another idea, stop trying to make pro-lifers pay for taxes to clinics that advocates pro-choices and embryo research. It is against their moral values.

1) why is this lumped in with the “news items”?

2) you can’t have it both ways christians. you yearn for the old days when religion supposedly went hand in hand with govt. (so you claim) and now Cal is preaching THIS! just curious cal, did you write anything similar to this piece during the early days of george walker?

Thanks for the article, Mr. Thomas. Your article is not what concerns me…Some of the feedback you got does. This country is in bad shape and it looks like the citizens are distracted with their petty bickerings. Obvious truths are beyond their reach. Are they blind or brainwashed? Don’t know about you but I think I’m sticking closer to my God than ever and trusting government less and less. A fool hath said in his heart there is no God. And only a fool can look at history and the world around us and think communism or socialism or liberalism will solve our problems. Only those who don’t know Him would say God and His people need the help of any Government money to get His will done. No, this is not the America it used to be. It has been poluted with the big lie, Cal, and people are falling for it on every hand. I think we have reached the point in history where God says…They will call good evil and evil good.
Thank you again and don’t stop telling the truth….it is so rarely spoken any more that it is nice to hear it even though it probably won’t be heeded.

Amen

Bobcarp is a myth, folks. Since it’s the 21st century, let him catch up (to God).

I think because those of you who really think that this country was NOT founded based on Judeo-Christian values, then how about we do this:

We break apart. Those of you who do not value the good Judeo-Christian morals own their own land of this country and we the Christian faith based community own our part of this country. Then we will see, who will grow faster. I’m telling you because our base is Jesus, love and trust, I am 100% sure that we will grow faster than you, the atheists. Simply because among yourselves, there are no love, no trust to each other, no sacrifice to each other.

Even though you take the good part of this country, let’s say all the big cities, and we the Christian faith based community take the dessert part of this country, I’m telling you that the blessing of God doesn’t see if the land is prosperous or starving. Nothing is impossible for God. And because we love each other, we trust each other, we value each other, we sacrifice to each other, we will become a great nation in the world, not because of our capabilities, but because of God.

You may laugh and scold. But if you really dare, we challenge you all the atheists.

May God bless you all, my friends.

Good point. The Catholic church has one of the biggest lobbying groups. The Catholic Conference is there to make sure the Congress doesn’t pass any laws that may cost them money. For example the good Catholic Conference fights tooth and nail to stop Congrees from chaning the statute of limitation on rape cases. Some states have a statute of as little as thre years to file a claim. This means if a 6 year old is being raped by a priest but doesn’t tell someone until they are 10 the church is free from being sued. This is an outright disgrace. I hope they people wake up and realize they may think they are getting over now by hoarding their millions of dollars and making the rapist from parish to parish but they will answer for it one day and it won’t be with their money.

Myrna,

There is no fundamental principle of church and state. It has been proven over and over that the phrase does not exist in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence or any amendment. It appeared one time in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Anabaptists in PA. They were concerned over a rumor that Jefferson was going to make the Congregationalist church the official church of America, ala the Church of England. He assured them he was not about to do such a thing. He further illustrated there was a need to erect a one dimensional wall of separation between the church and state. He concluded by communicating this one dimensional wall would always allow the church to influence the affairs of state but would protect the church from being interfered with by the state. This was the fight of the forefathers fought. It prompted George Washington to state, ‘it is impossible to govern without God and the Bible.’

Jeez, quit reciting stuff you’ve only heard repeated and not researched. Read a history book for pete’s sake.

What the Democratic Republican Party of the Founders envisioned was a minimal nation which “provided” for the common defense, and “promoted” the general welfare, while recognizing the sovereignty of the several states over their day-to-day affairs.

But, what took place in the first few years of nationhood perverted this vision. Those who were the international money men of that day sought centralized power in the Federal government, and usurpation of state sovereignty. These men were predominantly New York bankers and businessmen.

Within a few years, the Democratic Republican Party, after being overrun by the monied centralists, was renamed the Democratic Party. The Republican ideals of James Madison and Thomas Jefferson were tossed, not to take office again until Lincoln’s election to the Presidency.

Cal’s “government” is not some great deity which exists to rule over the affairs of men, it is the people of the nation ruling over themselves. Government is not a religion or assembly, nor was it ever meant to be in the sense that it is today.

If you form a government isolated from all the World’s religion, it then takes on a reason for being of its own; and if that reason is to force men to love their neighbors as themselves, it is become a church unto itself. If government takes money from one man and gives it to another by force of law, it is a religion wielding an unseen ideal that it uses to justify its behavior. This is a million miles from Madison’s and Jefferson’s idea of government, because they knew that all churches in or of government were oppressive to all men. They knew that men should do their duty to their fellow men as their own God leads them to do. This is the Christian Reformation/Enlightenment ideal which formed Madison’s and Jefferson’s Founding purposes. It is as “christian” as it can be, in that it refuses to make a church of government…but that was changed by the international elite investors.

Now that America is made a socialist state by the Democratic Party, all that is left is to Republicans, if they cannot turn America back to its Constitutional foundations, is at least to hold the rest accountable for what they have done. That is, if tax money is given to any purpose in the name of “good”, it cannot be denied to another purpose in the name of God, as both worship an invisible deity.

The word, church, simply means, assembly. Government was not meant to be an assembly of unbelief or belief, and, because of this, it is time to revert government to its original purpose of “promoting the general welfare” instead of providing the general welfare. One way to do this is to capitalize all welfare programs with enumeration whether George Soros or Warren Buffet like it or not.

I am appalled at the terrible spelling and “sentence structure” found in about three-fourths of these posts.

I am even more appalled that there are still people walking around loose who believe that the intent of the Founding Fathers was to create a “Christian nation.”

The crazies on the right captured the Christian church in the 1980s. Now that we have just about eliminated that malignant influence on the church, it would be a terrible mistake to let the crazies on the left gain similar power.

The further government and religion can be separated, the better for both!

You are very right. I noticed he did not say GOD there is people who have their faith in trees and voo-doo and all kinds of faith does this mean that get taxpayers money to help the people. I hope people do not buy into this kind of hood-wink. Wake up people there is nothing given by the government without a price tag. This election is going to end America as we know if the foolish things do not stop. Look at history how a country is taken into dicatorship.