Thank you for your thoughtful analysis of Senator Obama’s speech. I agree that he seems to see the issues well. I also agree that he does not actually demonstrate his concern for abortion in any way that I have seen. I am becoming increasingly concerned with the gap between what he says and what he does politically.

P.S. James Dobson should actually be referred to as Dr. Dobson.

If a candidate’s actions do not follow his words there is no telling what you are voting for!!! To think differently is not being very honest with yourself. With the vast amounts of money Obama has raised there will be many powerful money people demanding a pay back. With no guiding moral principles that translate into action - no telling what direction the country will be led in. Many generations will be affected. And with the Isalmic threat, no telling how many lives will be lost by the lack of leadership. The Israeli people of the Old Testament learned this lesson again and again, in very tragic ways. It’s time to pay attention!!

Father Johnathan,

I’m surprized that you are saying that the president an elected official should ignore the many constituents that do not agree on how to solve something. It doesn’t matter what it is or how much a church objects to it — the truth is many don’t agree. If he were to take your side(and mine) then he would disenfrancise the other sides. If there could be a comprimise reached then I think that should be taken, but while there is no discussion from either side I think it does more harm than good to force the issue.

I thank God every day for youtube, it helps keep our leaders accountable. For those that are interested go back and look to see what Dobson himself has said in the past. He is currently chastising Obama for what he himself has done. And remember neither are theologians.

I don’t really understand how this is confused theology. Roman Catholics have a Double Standard Doctrine which whould excempt Obama from sinful behavior because he was doing his job. He is supposed to represent those that elected him or will elect him. And he sees no agreement so he doesn’t push the issue. Its as if a judge had to sentence a murderer to death even though he didn’t agree with it.

We Lutherans call it the Left Hand vs. Right Hand Kingdom of God. The left hand is the mortal realm it tries but falls short.

imo focus on family and those that do not question them are the ones with the confused theology. the ones that do not put a high regard for the sermon on the mount and cherry pick the mosaic law we should follow.

…”Senator Obama’s fatal flaw is his unwillingness or inability to be consistent in word and deed on some very basic issues, of which, abortion is only one. His excellent speech on the urgency of ridding our country of racism, coupled with his simultaneous and strange embrace of pastors spewing reverse racism, was another”….

Bottom line, Father, is that Mr. Obama is a POLITICIAN and the same kind of politician he has pledged he is not. And you are correct; our very laws are based on the morality of Christians and Jews. For Christians not to speak to God when taking a position on any important issue (monetary, social, etc) is foolish.
Mr. Obama is great orator, but he is lacking as a man of moral clarity. The clarity he possesses his how to get elected and how to say everything the media likes so it will protect him thru this disgustingly biased political and media campaign.
The test of a real man is what he does. Sitting and listeing to a racist “reverend” (it pains me to use that term to describe Wright) and willingly allowing us flawed humans to allow babies to die in back rooms of hospitals due to botched abortions SHOW the man Mr. Obama is. His eloquent speechs are hallow when they are not backed up by good, moral action. Add inexperience and the worst possible fiscal sense to Mr. Obama’s resume and we have one scary, dangerous man.
God bless you, Father. Your wisdom and fairness is always appreciated.

Great article by Father.

Comment by Jay Hugherson
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:21 am

Fr. Jonathan, you had a very nice analysis going until the end, which dumped us with a conclusion of “Obama’s flawed because his religious beliefs much be insincere because they aren’t the same as mine.” I am a very religious person and I feel that abortion is a great tragedy.
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I didn’t get that at all from his comments. Obama IS inconsistent on almost every issue, or he flip-flops on them and must give multiple news conferences to explain what he REALLY meant. The man is a fraud, a con man of the worst sort, a part of the Chicago political machine that will come calling if he is elected. As for the abortion issue, how anyone, religious or not, could approve a partial birth abortion or refuse care to a baby who survives the abortion process is beyond the pale. Simply being a HUMAN BEING should not allow these things to happen. I truly don’t have ANY idea what Obama really believes in - do you?

Hi Father,

I was shackled to my desk by my boss because we have been so busy that I couldn’t respond to your posts last week. But I have found some time this week.

It seems Obama just wants to get elected and he tells people the things that they want to hear. Obama seems like a hypocrite, someone who says one thing and does something else. He must really think I am one of those bitter people who would rather cling to my guns and relgion than to take him seriously. LOL!!! Maybe I didn’t graduate from Harvard, but I know BS when I hear it.

I wouldn’t worry so much about him getting elected President. I doubt that he will actually do anything while he is in office. His charisma may get him the White House, but without experience he simply won’t be effective.

Perhaps Obama’s speech writer should be the one running for president. Does one expect a politician to say what (s)he is really thinking? Here’s an example: “Good day Ladies and Gentlemen, it is so nice to be here in “anyplace, USA”. I have always admired “present locality’s” “historical uniqueness”, blah-blah…

And now what Obama is actually thinking… “Boy I sure hope that gay Larry Sinclair gets silenced before his accusations become main-stream news.”

Publicly: And in closing, I believe in apple-dumplings, corn-bread and everything American, blah-blah…

Thinking… “I wonder how far the Chicaco Police Department have gotten in the Donald Young murder investigation?”

Publicly: …and remember to vote early and often for the best the US has to offer; me, blah-blah…

Thinking… “Boy, if they ever find a tie-in with me and Donald before the election, Hillary will be on the ballot instead of me!”

Publicly: Thank you once again and may Allah –er- God bless America, blah-blah…

Thinking… “Why did I ever get in that limo with that gay guy? Gotta be more discrete in the future…”

Fr. Let’s add to the fatal flaws…a “refined” position on Iraq war, a minor change on abortion, “mental health no reason for late term”. along w/faith based programs…well qualified under govt influence. A narcissist for Presidentwho will say whatever he needs and really has no core values. The spin is in. God Bless America, we need it! Peace..T

Father John,
I couldn’t have said it better. I like this young man but believe he should attend the silent retreats that Dorothy Day found so enlightening. Father Frank Erdeljac still gives them by the way. I view Obama as not having had enough time to mature spiritually, not that I am. I will not vote for him for this reason. Hopefully (prayerfully) when important decisions are to be made the Holy Spirit will guide him to fall on the correct side of the fence he sits upon.

I will vote for Cindy McCains husband.

Thank you for everything.

Father Jonathan,

My name is Rusty Montgomery and I am a seminarian in Lincoln Nebrsaka. I met you at the youth ralley in NYC when the Pope came to visit. I am writing to contact you to talk about the media and communication apostolate you have and my interest in that area as well. I would love to talk about your work and see how I can become involved in the area of service as well. I would also like to ask if you have ever thought of having a seminarian intern with you as you work with the media etc. If you get a second I would appreciate a response! My email is rustymontgomery@catholic.org.

God Bless You Father,

Rusty

P.S If this message does not get to Father Jonathan, is there an email I can reach him at? Thanks…

I will NEVER vote for Obama. He reminds me of Adolf Hittler with his great speeches full of promises and arrogance but we all know they/HE lacks substance. He scares me just as Adolf Hitler attempting to CHANGE our country- sure there will be CHANGE if pleople don’t take their blinded minds off this FAKE character… the change will be to WORST than the present, he like Hitler will want to control us in every aspect; WAKE-UP people! listen and read between his words, he is already attempting to control us, don’t let this happen.

FATHER YOU ARE A KIND AND FAIR MAN…
THANK YOU FOR THE OPINION AND TAKING TIME TO EXPLAIN..

BUT, I WILL NOT VOTE FOR B.O.

Matt, your explain what your church believes but do not address the words of Jesus “the way is narrow and few be who will find it” This is not my opinion, this is the words of Jesus. This Priest Johnathon claims Jesus was not lying yet he does not address the total of what Jesus was saying.
The “good” and “sincere” people who held the “truth” in Jesus day were the Pharisees yet Jesus claimed ” righteousness must exceed theirs” and called them “vipers” and “sons of the devil”. Religion, being good, sincerity, giving alms, etc, etc.. cannot save. This is why faith in Jesus and His FINISHED work is to be told to “all the world” per Jesus. Matt, by your own words you exhibit the pride of the religious leaders of Jesus day yet they were rejected. Remember it was the Jews of that day who had the temple and held the oracles of God yet Jesus called them “blind” Many in your religious system and others have made the same mistake. Today God is looking for those who worship no longer in this place or that but in “Spirit and in Truth”
I am involved in a ministry to the homeless and I have seen the power of God which accompanies the gospel, captives are still being set free today from all kinds of addictions but it not from ritual nor universalism but by faith in Jesus alone. How God judges those who have never heard the gospel is up to Him, who am I to judge? But to those who have heard and then hold to plurlism….. Jesus himself says in MT 10:32 “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. To acknowlege Jesus is take Him at His word and believe Him when he said “no one come the Father except by me” Jesus is THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE. If Jesus was here today preaching His message many inside and outside the church would try to crucify Him for His “intolerant” message.
For those who hold to all kinds of rituals and beliefs Jesus said “come all who are weary and I will give you rest”…..

This is for Kristen:
What a fantastic lady you must be. I read your piece with interest and discovered that you actually know what you are talking about. How refreshing to read an intelligent piece of writing like yours.
You must be a wonderful woman to personally know. I feel unfortunate that we will never meet.

Reasonable argument(s) against abortion? A few come to mind starting with the devaluation of all human life. If human life is not important at the miracle of conception, how can life be somehow more important after birth? We are,in my opinion, teaching the generations through abortion on demand that we as a society have no responsibility for our fellow man or accoutability for our own actions. Neither result benefits our way of life. And, call me nuts but I also believe we are being judged by God right now. The judgement comes in the form of what we in America today call “illeagal immigration”. I believe the reason that the door is open for 14 to 20 million (hard to know exactly how many) migrants is because about 50 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NOT BEEN BORN! Is that an erroneous assessment?

Steve Meadow

Smyrna, Tennessee

I agree completely with the Father.Obama scares a lot of people because of these things and many,many more.Rev. Wright,Ayers,Farrakhan, Pfleger and MOVE-ON,G. Soros and a lot more ‘friends’ . He is a puppet. he says one thing and right away a conflicting thing,then has to explain the next day that he didn’t mean it that way,or it was out of context or whatever . He is so far-left,and now is trying to move to the middle. I still think his wife is an angry person. Remember she also sat in that church with him over the years. I will never vote for him and will never forget a minister [Wright] say G.D.America!! I say GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!! We are a caring and giving nation and not bitter and frustrated. Our biggest problem is our dem. congress ,that so hates our President, that they WON’T make a right move for our country! DRILL,DRILL,DRILL!!!

Fr. Jonathan, you had a very nice analysis going until the end, which dumped us with a conclusion of “Obama’s flawed because his religious beliefs much be insincere because they aren’t the same as mine.” I am a very religious person and I feel that abortion is a great tragedy. But, as a political person, I don’t believe that those beliefs give me the right to tell the government to impose my religious beliefs upon a woman who is forced to make a decision as to whether to take an unwanted pregnancy to term. That’s why we have a First Amendment. There is no inconsistency between being anti-abortion and saying it’s not the government’s job to enforce that belief. Do we want the sort of government theocracy that can — as in some Muslim countries — result in a death sentence for a Muslim who converts to Christianity? Of course not. So — no matter how much we believe in Christianity — should we force a religious belief on all women in this country? Obama gets it; there is no “flaw”

toneo -

Catholics believe that the spirit of Christ exists in those other faiths outside the Church, that is, insofar as those other faiths share and participate in all that is Truth. For instance: a Muslim who, by no fault of his own, believes that Jesus was not God but a prophet — in this regard, his faith suffers defects.

However: A Jew or Muslim worships the one God of Abraham — in this way, they participate in the spirit of Christ. Or when a Buddhist gives alms, this too is a participation in Truth. In addition, we realize those souls who follow the natural law — they also participate in the spirit of Christ. That said, Catholics believe those souls of other faiths can achieve eternal salvation.

We must also consider the atheist. We have hope that God’s mercy will save them as well. If, by no fault of their own, they do not have faith, we pray and hope God’s mercy and plan of salvation through the infinite merits of Christ crucified and risen extends to them too. By following the natural law they share in the spirit of Christ.

In fact, many souls lose faith because of the bad examples by Christians. Here is one example: Christians who say that Jews and Muslims and Buddhist are all condemned to hell. This remark, in my view, is not in keeping with the God who suffered the humiliation of the cross. Considering this measure of God’s self-abnegation — How can we not have hope? — How can we not believe that all mankind has received sufficient grace to achieve eternal salvation?

After reading many of the comments, I have noticed that non-Catholic Christians always use a bible verse to defend their position. This is not convincing to Catholics. For one, the Bible which you quote is, as it were, the Catholic Church’s. The Bible is a product of the Catholic Church. In addition, in the past 2000 years, the Catholic Church has been the Bible’s sole teaching authority.

Furthermore: The Catholic Church traces herself back 2000 years to Jesus and the Apostles. This historical reality, as well as her historical manefestations — they are convincing and compelling arguments which reveal the Catholic Church as the one, true Church.

Dear Joe from SD, in an article called “No Jesus didn’t lie” F Joe said .”Elements of goodness and truth found outside the structure of Christianity may still lead its followers in the right direction”.
My problem with this statement as a Christian is the fact that Jesus said much the opposite “narrow is the way of eternal life and few find it” Broad is the way that leads to distruction. This Priest is saying that there are other truths and ways outside of Christ. If what he said were true than Christ died for nothing and His words cannot be trusted. I believe Jesus and I believe this Priest however good his motives has confirmed in people minds that Christ is just on way to the Father out of many. “Let God be found true and every man a liar” Joe In this day we must know what we believe and stand for it otherwise we will fall for anything….. I hope this all makes sense now, Blessings, Toneo

Did I actually read a liberal argument on here that “Abortion saves lives”?

Friends, society is in huge, huge trouble!

Fr. Jonathan…The hypocrisy of Sen. Obama in how he co-opted Pres. Bush’s Faith Based Initiative to reach out to Evangelicals and other Christians was ingenious. Hope people look beyonf the topic at the words and see how in his new council the government will control things. I’d guess that would mean family planning as well since he is not just pro-abortion but pro-partial birth abortion and is not even in favor of saving babies born after a botched abortion. Intelligent, but devious. Being just old enough to remember movies w/snake oil salesman..or even “The Music Man”, seems like many are charmed by him w/o looking beyond his words. Seeems like he is far more social welfare oriented and would lead us down a path we’d regret. Compassion, love, charity for others I am all for and I’ll trust good people to use their money in support of the poor rather than the bloated and confused government institutions. I’m a veteran and proud of who and what the U.S. represents and as we approach the 4th of July would hope all of us take time to consider how this country can be led well if led by a hypocrit. I’ll trust that God blesses us w/good judgement as individuals and we are not fooled by empty words or worse, lies for expedience to promote not just himself but a liberation/Marxist agenda. Peace…T

Hey Father J:

I love how you take people at their word…what else can we judge a person by, especially if we don’t know them personally? But, Sen. Obama seems to me to be a politician above all else, and his primary goal is electoral. I think his speech was well-written to get some, like yourself, to support his words, because there is nothing wrong with his words. You noted a disparagement between his spoken words and his actions, I think it’s a little stronger than that: he’s lying. He is saying whatever he can to get elected. He will support “religious freedom” when it helps him get elected, he will apologize for saying something against Alan Keyes if it will help him get elected, and he will support abortion rights if it will help him get elected.

Some people in this blog have noted that he is just supporting the convictions he has…it seems to me those convictions change whenever he thinks it will get him more votes.

Jamie, I think it is safe to say Barak Obama is being true to his religious convictions. Unfortuantly many of his convictions are not those that a Evangelical, Catholic or Orthodox Christian that are true to the convictions of their churches would recognize as Christian.

Look up the Religious Coalition For Reproductive Choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCRC

As for the whole “Pro Choice” thing, you can’t omit “Right to Choose TO HAVE AN ABORTION”. If you are Pro-Choice, you are Pro Abortion. The whole “People will do it anyway” is also equally bogus. People shoplift everyday, but no one is advocating for the legalization of shoplifting.

Reference: Comment by toneo
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 am

First of all, who is Fr. Joseph? 2ndly, I don’t believe that Fr. Jonathan stated anything to the effect of what you are saying. Please guide me in your interpretation. I am very familiar with the Bible and some but not all of it’s teachings. Remember there is a difference between Old Testament and New Testament. Bottom line is that Jesus gave us the greatest of Commandments and the 2nd greatest which is much like the first one. Also, if we truely lived by the 10 Commandments, there would be no discussion on this today. I do pray daily not only for myself and my family, but for all people of all nations. It is my duty to do so. Fr. Jonathan, in reference to the above topic, states nothing about what you are talking about. He does not hate Obama (Love the sinner, not the sin), and states very clearly that Obama is a smart man, but has lost sight of the Moral issues at hand. God is very forgiving and will certainly not abandon even the greatest sinner. The greater the sinner, the more right he has to God’s Divine Mercy. However, you must open your heart. Let God in. Close your eyes so that you can see the truth. Thank you for quoting the Bible in so many references. I always enjoy reading the truth. I honestly think that you may have misinterpreted Fr. Jonathans story. Or maybe I did, but I didn’t see anywhere in it that he called Jesus a liar, or misrepresented Jesus in anyway. Again, I strongly feel that you should never attack a priest and I will defend them in all instances. Yes, they are not infallable, but that doesn’t mean you attack them. Tactfully questioning is not attacking, but a method of learning. Sometimes they might be wrong in our eyes, but again, if we don’t question it, we must leave it to God to take care of. Always Trust in God. Always. Again, thank you for your comments, and please say a prayer for all of America. It is important. Again, I’m not disagreeing with what you have said in any way, but only that I don’t believe that Fr. Jonathan said what you think he said. All three of us are on the same sheet of music, but if he actually did say that, let me know. Thanks and God bless. PS: SD not ND. Close though.

Vince, thank you for your comment; I found it to be extremely informative. I hope and pray others will use it to combat this terrible scourge we have legalized in our country.

I won’t forget when earlier this year Obama was giving one of his campain speeches. I don’t remember what state he was in but, Obama oddly claimed he would not want his daughters to be “punished with a baby” because of a crisis pregnancy — hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life.

I don’t regret saying that Obama is a poor man living a double life. He seems to speak of and in religious platitudes. It all sounds too good to be true. Yet his actions and words at other times and places appear converse. I believe Mr. Obama’s heart is elsewhere. The gifts (education, affluence, prosperity, intelligence, etc.) that God has given him have been diverted away from God the Giver. It seems that he cannot be true to his religious convictions that he learned from childhood and is torn by the humanists and seculars for just a single vote. Truely sad… Mr. Obama’s heart is of the soil where the seed that fell among thorns and were choked by the thorns. One consolation that Mr. Obama has going for him is that God will not give up on him. Perhaps, some day, Mr. Obama’s heart will become the “good soil” and the seeds of true faith and action will produce fruit.

Krsiten….. a little history
“First of all…protestant churches, the UCC, and the Episcopalian churches do NO advocate abortion! That is ignorant and absolutely absurd for someone to say that! They may be advocates of a woman’s right to choose, but that does NOT and has NEVER meant pro-abortion.

PLEASE GET THAT STRAIGHT! THAT IS THE MOST INSULTING THING YOU CAN INFER ABOUT THE PRO-CHOICE PLATFORM!”

The Pro-Life & Pro-Choice are both marketing rebranding to make them more acceptable. The Pro-Choice side started as an abortion rights effort. As that didn’t get a majority, it softened and became Pro-Choice. The best you can say about Pro-Choice is that it condones abortion if not outright supporting it. Pro-Life was the anti-abortion group that got better play with the Pro-Life. The distinction I’m familiar with comes in the definition of innocent. Killing a baby is killing an innocent, the baby had no choice and was acted upon by another. Terri Schaivo is a similar situation. The death penalty is a consquence of an action. Technically, there is a lack of innocence due to the conviction.

Kristen,
The Catholic church is not against the death penalty. Rather it argues that it should be used very sparingly. I sense that you are very frustrated by having people misinterpret your views. As a Catholic, I am constantly suprised what people outside the Church tell me I believe. Seems to me any resonable discourse ought to begin with forgetting about what we think are people’s positions and start letting them tell us what they are.
-Matt

Kristen -

I am Catholic and Republican.

I have read your postings. You have brought to light good arguments for discussion.

On the whole, I am not happy with the Republican Party. I think the party has lost its focus, especially with regard to the philosophy of conservatism.

In the first place, let us consider your argument: To be pro-life should mean exactly that.

I agree with you. I believe the dignity of the fetus as well as the embryo and the child rapist deserve protection. I am glad to argue this with other Republicans who disagree.

Let us consider next this argument: To be pro-choice and anti-abortion is not contradictory.

After considering your first posting, I see that you empathize with those women who are confused and alone and scared, and, most especially, with those who have conceived because of rape or incest. This drama is a reality, to be sure, and we all need to have empathy in this regard.

In my view, there are options which should be considered carefully. Those mothers who are confused need, to say the least, our constant care and support. The one option, however, that is always tragic and gravely wrong is abortion. Abortion is never the solution. The taking of another person’s life is never a reasonable response to our pain, no matter how much we hurt.

Also, here is the contradiction of being both anti-abortion and pro-choice. On average, in just one day in the United States, pro-choice consequently results in 3000 abortions — over one million abortions per year. This, then, is the contradiction: You are for choice even though it results — over one million times a year — in the very thing you are against, abortion. If the very thing you are for consequently results in the very thing you are against, this is a contradiction.

On another note, I agree with you that we should consider all the issues. I want to take care of the environment; although I think human needs come first.

I believe the war was a bad idea. But that cannot be reversed. We are there, and I believe it best to stay until the time is right to leave. Not only do we owe it to the Iraqis, there are, as well, other complex issues which must be considered, such as Iran, terrorism, and genocide. The outlook of leaving too soon is grim.

I think you are using more rhetoric than objective argument when you imply that McCain supports never-ending war in Iraq. I do not believe this. I believe McCain has analyzed the situation on the whole, in all its complexities, and that he believes staying there is the best decision. I agree with him.

Economically speaking, I am philosophically conservative. I believe in cutting taxes while at the same time cutting spending. McCain too shares my philosophy. As president I believe he would keep the tax cuts and slash spending. Also I am in favor of school vouchers and supporting parochial schools. I disagree with the philosophy of economics of liberals. What liberals suggest sounds good, and sounds ideal too, but their philosophy lacks critical thought and tends toward socialism.

I believe Supreme Court Justices should not be broad constructionist but rather strict constructionists. This is very important to me. Here I do not trust Obama to be sure. I trust McCain because he said he would appoint judges like Alito and Roberts. Of all the things Bush did, this he got right — very right, indeed.

So, in summary, my philosophy of government is closer to McCain’s than Obama’s. I do have issues with McCain — namely, embryonic stem cell research — but this is better than Obama’s support of partial-birth abortion.

Dear Joe from Nd according to 1 Peter all believers are a “royal priesthood” look for yourself (1 Pet. 2:9) and see. It is exactly because of Father Josephs tiitle as priest that I take public issue with him as anyone who recognizes that false teaching is dangerous. If an Buddist said there are many ways to God I would not take issue but this man is suppose to be a preacher of the Gospel. If there are many ways other than Jesus then he was lying so eat, drink and be merry for tommorow we die. Jesus was telling the truth but it is an exclusive to those who believe it. He said ” | Publications | For More Information |
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Not Everyone Who Says “Lord, Lord” Will Enter the Kingdom
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?”
23 And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”
Joe , what did Jesus mean by the expression “the will of My Father.”? When Jesus spoke of doing the will of the Father to obtain kingdom entrance, He had one act of obedience in mind: believing the gospel. It is God’s will that none should perish but that all should come to a change of mind about the gospel (2 Pet. 3:9). When asked the question, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus said, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent” (John 6:28-29).

In John 3:36 John is quoted as saying, “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe/obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

The man you are defending has opposed the Jesus and the Appostles in there teachings and I simply and without malice publically told him he is wrong so perhaps some who have been beguiled will look for themselves. This goes for me also… don;t believe me because I said it but because the Scriptures do. Blessings, toneo

Any idiot can challenge a person to rush to death if they really believe in Christ. Where do some of the posts come from? Guess they do not realize we all have a higher purpose in this life and should use our time to serve others. Christians are not the faith of death but life eternal. Visited a friend today who has a 50% chance to continue in this world. He’s at peace w/himse;f but after talking about him and his life so far (not all great), he went on to express concern for others. Good Jewish guy talking to a Catholic. No fatal flaw in him..not any more than any of us I’d guess. The contrast to hearing him and Obama appealing to Evangelicals today sickened me in a way. This man has more courage and character and less hypocrisy than Obama based on what I;ve seen. Intelligent and devious is a real bad combination for a leader. Peace…T

I don’t understand all of the vitriol against the Father. His argument is well reasoned, and thoughtful. You can disagree with his analysis, but why the personal attacks? For those of you who missed it, the man is a PRIEST! His passion for the unborn is focused by the fact he is a priest. He isn’t hiding that from anyone. One of the things I really like about Father Jon, is he is a pragmatist. Fight the battles you can win. More than likely there will be an opportunity to seat a Supreme Court justice, this makes the abortion issue a battle that is winnable. The church is against abortion, war, the death penalty, and the list goes on. A more liberal court would probably make the death penalty unconstitutional, but not touch the whole cloth interpretation that made abortion a right to privacy. Abortion is killing a life that is 100% innocent, the death penalty is taking a life of one who is presumed guilty. 840,000 abortions in 2004, 45 executions in 2007. Look at the total lives saved by one appointee.

There isn’t any single issue that he can support that will have a bigger impact on lives saved. It would be interesting to see the discourse if we had 2 anti-abortion candidates, who disagreed on capital punishment and the war.

I’m sure that I haven’t put this in perspective for those committed to their opposing view, but I felt it was worth saying in case anyone was REALLY listening.

Father if I am in error on my arguments, please correct as appropriate.

BTW, I’m not Catholic, so for those of you about to launch into a tirade in that direction, go for something else.

Keeping abortion legal is not inconsistent with the idea that abortion is morally wrong. On the contrary, it is realistic and saves more lives than if abortion were illegal. Study after study shows that the abortion rate stays the same whether abortion is legal or not. The main thing that changes is where women go to get the abortions: they can either go to safe, regulated doctors or unsafe, back-alley clinics where they may not even be able to check the credentials of the person performing the abortion procedure.

If you hate abortion and want it to stop completely, that’s understandable, but illegalizing it is not the solution. An effective way to reduce the abortion rate might be to promote family planning methods and early access to information on adoption option. You may see abortion as murder, in which case, legal abortion kills babies, but you must keep in mind that more people die when abortion is illegal, because not only do you lose the baby, but the mother is more likely to die without a legitimate clinic to go to.

Dear Father Jonathan :There is a book Written by Zigniew Brzezenski “Between two Ages” The book introduce the reader into the mind of many Leftist Elitiist Liberals politicians and intelectuals , including him . The book explained very clear and in detail what is the goal they have in mind when they will gain power. Is a doctrine totally alien to us and do not represent the angelic rhetoric we hear in the Democratic campaign.When they gain power they will revised all what they are saying now, and that’s it. Always they can oil the Slur Machine and life goes on.But that is my opinion.

It seems to me that the difference between a priest and con-man is the motivation. They both have to be good at relating and reading a persons insides. The difference is the motivation and how this knowledge is used. For the priest, (the traditional good priest that is!), he wishes to read or use his perception in reading a person to ‘help’ that person . . . to provide empathy, understanding, solace, and possibly nurture the person to grow into a better person. The con-man uses the same sort of insights into a person so that he/she can manipulate or use the person for their own gain. To have intelligence and insight does not make that person good or not evil . . . the same tools can be used for good or evil. It’s the intentions! I’ll leave it to you as to whether Obama has intentions of being a giver or a taker! I know what I believe.

Shawn -

In my opinion, Father’s argument wasn’t one of whether consistency is a chief virtue by which to measure candidates.

His argument, rather, questioned whether the stark contrast between Obama’s words and his actions will pave to be the decisively important element of whether he is elected or not.

Two examples were given.

(1) Obama says abortion is tragic: Yet he votes for the most heinous of abortion procedures.

(2) Obama denounces racism: Yet for 20 years he was a member of a church which fostered racism.

The fatal flaw is here. Defending the contradictions — especially during the debates — may prove to be overwhelming, and, in my opinion, the majority of swing voters will not be wholly satisfied.

Also, I think your logical conclusion is not necessarily wrong. Although I am not saying it is correct since I would need more time to think it over. In the meantime, though: a consistent atheist, though I disagree with them regarding faith (and therefore probably many other things, to be sure) if they are consistent, at the very least that shows some element of rationality.

As for an inconsistent Catholic (since I am Catholic, I would like to answer this one) — I am suspicious: because if a Catholic knows the truth yet does the opposite, certainly that is a valid issue to criticize.

But I would disagree that the logical conclusion is to prefer the atheist simply because of consistency. They both suffer defects, in my view, so I would be very analytical of their philosophies and character and convictions, among other things.

First of all…protestant churches, the UCC, and the Episcopalian churches do NO advocate abortion! That is ignorant and absolutely absurd for someone to say that! They may be advocates of a woman’s right to choose, but that does NOT and has NEVER meant pro-abortion.

PLEASE GET THAT STRAIGHT! THAT IS THE MOST INSULTING THING YOU CAN INFER ABOUT THE PRO-CHOICE PLATFORM!

As for why Father J did not condemn the move on the death penalty ruling for child rapists…it’s because the CATHOLIC CHURCH IS ENTIRELY PRO-LIFE…this means that Catholics, as a general rule, should be AGAINST the death penalty! (And, as a general rule, all Catholics should be PRO-LIFE!)

The above statement would seem to pose a serious issue to someone wanting to vote Democrat or Republican, since Republicans are “pro-life” yet for the death penalty, and Democrats are “pro-choice” (NOT pro-abortion) and against the death penalty. OH WAIT…I can be Pro-Choice and still be anti-abortion…THIS DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF! So BAM, the Democrats seem to be stronger on these two very important issues…at least if you’re a rationally thinking individual!

HOWEVER, when one is voting, shouldn’t one look at ALL of the issues, and not just vote on ONE platform/issue? That just seems irresponsible to me. And doesn’t pro-life kind of span all the issues? I mean, take care of the environment - it will improve people’s lives. End the war - so many lives won’t be lost. Ban torture - this hurts lives (that we do not KNOW for sure are guilty or innocent)…I could go on. I think I write the same thing every time I post, but no one seems to get it. I feel like the Radical Right would not believe the truth if it slapped them in the face…and they continue to refuse to consider logic. Not to mention completely AVOIDING some of the above topics that I’ve just written about!

Let’s get hyped up about the abortion issues, but completely ignore the other issues that pertain to the quality and values of human life!!!!!!!!!!! Then let’s vote for someone who supports never-ending war in Iraq, takes care of his rich buddies, and forgets that the middle and lower classes even exist. Then let’s watch as those middle and lower classes put this man back in power for another 4 years because he has got better “morals” than the other candidate.

GIVE ME A BREAK!

Reference: Comment by toneo
July 1st, 2008 at 12:39 pm
My reply is the following;
If you feel you have a disagreement that can be resolved “Tactfully”, then feel free to do so. But to attack a priest publicly or otherwise is wrong. For that matter, “Mudslinging” in general is wrong. I strongly agree that it is sometimes misunderstood what one person might say, or maybe sometimes it may wrong or even left open to interpretation, but it is not for us to “Mudsling” if you will. As you yourself have said, “all the grace that is abundant and plenty is found in Jesus Christ, but if you don’t open your heart, you won’t get them. The smart man listens, makes self sacrifices, helps all that he can, and is willing to look outside the box at the big picture. The opposite on the other hand does all that he can for himself/herself. Correction is from God, not from man. Listen to Him. He is talking!!! Sometimes he uses us to speak for him, so you must look at the correction that you get and see if it is the way God himself would correct you. You don’t hear God blairing through a loudspeaker that you messed up did you? Somebody might have said that you messed up at some point in your life, but was probably done by a friend or someone you consider a friend. HMMM. Funny how that all works. God bless, and yes… Pray for all the graces you can get, not so much for you, but for others as well. God really does like that. Honestly.

I agree with others who credit Obama’s eloquence to his political machine, though I don’t give this as much importance as maybe I could, because in a position of greater power, he’ll still likely rely on the same sort of chosen advisors. The consistency Father Jonathon talks about may be the only true glimpse we get of the actual man behind it all. Dobson, with all his understandable passion, did let himself I think be blinded by that very same passion… when the light’s too bright, it’s hardest to see anything not directly in it’s path. Again Father Jonathon is *spot on*, pointing out that the narrower the focus, the easier it is to block - the thrust of Dobson’s arguments were not only easy to parry, but they were so tightly bound together that they presented a target in and of themselves. Ironically, the very thing Obama cautioned against in the speech being debated.

Fortunately, it’s also one of the keys that might unlock the way to Obama’s defeat. It’s easy to overcome Knowing the right answers, but communicating them poorly - it’s a learned skill. It’s much, much harder to overcome saying the right things, but following your beliefs in opposite directions - it’s who you are.

Obama’s analysis, for all it’s merit, is after all only superficial - a simple re-wording essentially of the age-old question: “What’s in it for me”? His carefully worded analysis only spells out the first part: getting someone else’s attention. Could it be that his understanding doesn’t go beyond that? The greatest weakness of arrogance, is that it assumes the self-proclaimed brilliance of it’s owner is absolutely and totally self-evident, and stops there abrubtly. Perhaps the emperor really does have new clothes - there’s just nothing filling them?

I enjoyed your article and your take on Obama’s speech.
Let’s look at the root of the abortion issue: A specific class is legislated “non-person” with no rights, not even the right to life endowed by their Creator. Can we not recognize in this the repetition of similar ideology that led to slavery, the Holocaust, and the current genocides? When any category of human life is deemed, for whatever reason, as not possessing intrinsic value we all lose. The shift in thinking is so dangerous, so inherently evil, that it permeates all the rest. To cry out for any other social injustice and yet remain silent on the abortion holocaust is a dichotomy beyond my comprehension. And to proclaim that it is “tragic” and yet vote for all forms of the procedure – even one in which the child is partially born and then killed - is reprehensible.

This is not a fatal flaw. Almost all politicians lie while running for election and even after they get into office. Obama and McCain will do the same.

No surprise - they are running for office.

Look at the politicians in the Catholic church, the bishops and Archbishops. They also play loose with truth.

A message for Zilana: To abort means to kill. To be pro-choice means that you freely support someone’s (yours or someone else’s) right to kill…to kill an innocent and defenseless life. There is hypocrisy in such stances. We are supposed to look out for our brothers who can not look out for themselves. When are we going to stop turning our heads from such things and stop pretending that what is going on is somehow ok? Our human worth comes from God alone, and this worth is immense. If a pregnant woman who wants and loves her child is killed, for example, 2 counts can be filed against the perpetrator. However, if a pregnant woman who doesn’t want her child decides to kill it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and it is even encouraged and promoted! It is a sad, spiritual poverty to fall prey to this false morality as the right to choose what to do with human life. Little by little and bit by bit, the liberal left is taking God out of America. Unfortunately, there are few people on either side who are doing much to help. Personally, I think it better to risk offending some humans (not to mention protecting them from jeopardizing or losing their immortal soul) than it is to risk offending God who has designed life to be good and not something disposable. BY THE WAY, THANK YOU, FR. JONATHAN!!!

Father,
So what your suggestion is to vote for McCain who doesn’t have a “fatal law”? Can you answer to me how McCain is rarely address about his faith, his divorce, his refuse to speark in front of the Southern Baptist Church? Above all, I don’t think he has any problem to move ahead with stem cell research which considers abortion to many of Christian fundamentalists You are hardly mentioned this because it’s not fatal enough to you? I decide to vote for McCain not because of abortion on top of my list God but I pick him based stricly on many other urgent issues. God will judge us accordingly at the end and man judgments don’t mean a squash. There are a lot of ill-informed, junk information out there about both candidates and I prefer to use my own intelligence without listening endless political pundits on both sides.

Why do you equate hypocrisy with superior intelligence but an unexplained inconsistency?

Obama says what he thinks people want to hear. He sat for twenty years under a Pastor that did the same thing. He was mentored well!

He learned the “speech” of the Christian, yet, contnues to deny the power thereof, which comes from righteous action, obedience, and Biblical faith.
That is why he is applauded for his words only, but his actions are those in which he continually has to apologize or explain away with long drawn out “prepared statements”, (most contradicting the previously prepared statements given only days before).

You say, “Surprisingly” Obama admitted to “double-talk”; what is so surprising about that when he is the “master” of double-talk?
Is it not more double-talk to admit to double-talk, and then say something else completely contrary to your actions once again?

I grew up with a friend who lied so much you could never believe a word that he said. He was considered the life of the party, and everyone just loved him until his lies were found out by them. Obama reminds me a lot of this guy. I have never been suckered by either one from the beginning, because I recognize the continual tactics of a hypocrite.

Why do you not simply call it what it is? Hypocrisy!

Fr.,

The big picture seems to be blurred - I do not speak German, but when I look at historic tapes of Hitler talking to the crowds and turn the volume off and just watch how the people react to his speaches - the words do not seem to matter. Maybe this has always been the plite of men over time to have come into our mist a leader or at least someone to follow - I watch Oboma give his speaches and turn down the volume and watch how the crowds react to his words - it still does not matter what he says - the big difference today is the quality of the tapes - not the quality of the speakers. Yes, I too am a bit nervous about the future - I also wonder if there is anything that can be done at historic times as these? One truth I do believe is that Change is coming - are we ready?

Michael
Atlanta, Ga

I simply cannot believe anything Obama says.

Do you really think Clark’s speech about McCain’s military service was unknown to Obama? Obama knew EXACTLY what Clark was going to say…….and approved it. And when he made his little speech thereafter, take note, he did not mention Clark’s name.

Obama is devious and completely untrustworthy.

I agree that Obama is an intelligent man and one who can seemingly analyze situations, however it’s his convictions that disturb me. He seems to change as the polls dictate the opinion of the American people. I have always believed that this is exactly why a portion of our population hates President Bush. Whether you agree or disagree, President Bush has stood by his convictions. I have disagreed with the president on several issues, most notably illegal immigration, but I have always admired that he stood strong in what he believes in. I think that John McCain also stands by his convictions whether you agree or disagree, and as a Republican I can honestly say I disagree with several of his policies. John McCain rather than Barack Obama is the better man for the job.

A couple of quick comments:

Exellent analysis, Father. As Jesus said, “You shall know them by their works”. What they say means nothing unless they demonstrate it by action.

The gover