We all have a right to our opinions about what society should be like. I personally think society would be better off without Down syndrome. Therefore, I would likely choose to abort rather than to have a child with Down syndrome. I would not force this choice on anyone else, and I don’t want anyone else’s values forced on me.

My personal belief is that life begins at birth, when the soul is born into the body. Whatever exists before birth is just a body being formed, not a person. Therefore, aborting following a diagnosis of Down syndrome is not only not depriving a person of life, it’s actually giving that person a better life by allowing their soul to be born into a body that will not give them the frustrations that come with Down syndrome.

I realize my beliefs don’t have any relevance to most people, so I can look at this from the perspective of science instead. There is a period in prenatal development during which consciousness is not possible. An entity not capable of consciousness could not object to being terminated; it lacks the capacity to want otherwise for itself, so it need not be accorded any rights. The fact that it could eventually attain consciousness and develop a will to live does not mean we have to allow it to do so any more than we have to allow every sperm and egg to become a child.

I think it’s a cop-out when people claim that a particular conception is “God’s will” and therefore must be intended to result in a birth. Why throw the responsibility to God when the pregnancy is clearly the result of your own deliberate decision (if nothing else, the decision to have sex), and what makes you so sure God wanted you to do that? The idea that aborting is “playing God” fails to recognize that deciding to raise a child is “playing God” just as much. What makes you think you are qualified? The answer is that human beings are intended to `play God’, in a sense. Don’t you think God gave us brains because he wanted us to use them? I am opposed to the idea that everything is the way it is because God wants it to be that way. What’s to say God doesn’t want us to change something?

By the way, I have known people with Down syndrome, and that has not changed my opinion on this issue (if anything firmed it up). Of course they are entitled to life and the pursuit of happiness once they are here. I also know that if I had such a child, I would love him or her. However, given the choice, I still wouldn’t deliberately bring such a child into the world. I believe it would be irresponsible of me.

I can also add that there are other disabilities, such as spina bifida, for which I would not abort. That is a reflection of my own personal priorities. I think we are better off as a society if we allow individuals to make these decisions based on their own priorities, and I acknowledge that others’ priorities are different from mine.

I have to wonder about the people who talk about the life lessons, such as patience, slowing down or having fun, that they learned from children with Down syndrome. Couldn’t they have learned these lessons through raising a child without Down syndrome or through other life experience? Is this a lesson that was necessary for them but not for others? Would someone like me who doesn’t have deficiencies in those areas (I actually have difficulty with impatience, speeding up and getting to work) be justified in skipping those unneeded life lessons? Is it demeaning to suggest someone’s purpose in life is to teach someone else a lesson (rather than anything for their own benefit)?

We hear from the parent of children with Down syndrome not just on the internet but in real life. What’s missing are the voice of those who chose not to. What if you knew how many families you know would have had a child with Down syndrome had the parents not acted to prevent that outcome? For every family with a third child with Down syndrome that was not created, a family with two non-disabled children exists in its stead. (Or actually, they might have had another child instead–especially if an abortion occurs early in pregnancy, it leaves time to get pregnant again sooner than could happen if the pregnancy were carried to term.) Those children will have a different life experience–who are you to say it is worse? Since every way in which time is spent–including caring for a child with Down syndrome–means time that cannot be spent on other things, if you assert that having a sibling with Down syndrome gives children opportunities they would not have otherwise, can you acknowledge that the reverse is also true? Two different possible families could exist, and I believe that it is proper for human beings (in this case, the expectant parents) to make a choice about which it will be. To say that it is God who decides to me seems to be a way of avoiding having to deal with a very difficult decision.

Yet human beings are capable of making challenging decisions. What is the point of being alive, of being human, if you cannot make a choice about something so important as whether or not to have a child?

Antoinette,

I AM a carrier of Down syndrome, there is a small number of people with Down syndrome who inheited it. Just to clarify. So according to a couple people here I guess I should be brought ot the meadow and shot…bad genes. Nope, GREAT genes! You should see my baby with Down syndrome and my other child without. And WE WILL continue to have children because WE CAN!

I would also like to add that, as I understand it, the problem some people (including myself) have with the new test, is the following:

Amnios have a small risk of miscarriage. This makes parents think harder about deciding wether to have it or not. When I was pregnant with my daughter my husband and I had to think long and hard about whether to accept testing or not. We researched the risks of the various tests offered, and we also researched the conditions that these tests would detect. We had to decide if we would be able to accept our child if it was diagnosed with one of these conditions (we would.) We read about the conditions, spoke to parents of children with Down’s syndrome, Spina Bifida etc and made our decision. But, because the amnio did involve a certain risk to the fetus, we were forced to evaluate out decision BEFORE we were brought face to face with a diagnosis, and BEFORE our emotions of fear, hopelesness, and uncertainty of the future her unleashed.

Additionally, an amnio is performed later in the pregnancy, (when many mothers have already felt the baby move, have had time to “bond” with the baby) and is accompanied with an ultrasound. A simple blood-test removes the “personal” image of the fetus as a human being (or a POTENTIAL human being, depending on your beliefs.) I believe any decision to terminate should be made while being fully aware of WHAT it is you are terminating (a living -even if you don’t believe it is conscious) creature that will grow up to be your child.) It IS a difficult decision, as it SHOULD be. The blood test makes it easier for people to make the decision to terminate lightly, and that is what we think is worng with it.

Anna

I live in the UK and I have found this new test and the press’ reaction to it disturbing.
I have to say that I am an agnostic who has two “perfect” children, healthy, intelligent and beautiful. Yet my husband and I are currently in the process of adopting a baby with Down’s Syndrome. Why? Because we believe that this child would be an asset to our family and to society.

I am not “pro life” (as in, I do not oppose ALL abortion) but I do value all life. I do not expect everyone to believe that a disabled child is “a gift from God” or to be willing and prepared to raise such a child (much as I would like that to be the case.) But not wanting to parent a disabled child does NOT make the child’s life worthless and disposable. Adoption is one of many options available. This test that simplifies the process of abortion of a “faulty” fetus that could be much wanted by someone else (such as me and my husband) is, in my opinion, very shaky moral ground.

I am blessed with a daughter with Down syndrome. She has enriched my life and my husband’s and all of our family, and friends as well. Only parents (most of them anyway) of children with Down syndrome understand the indescribable joy and love they possess. Anyone who thinks they don’t want a “retarded” child are so totally ignorant of what it is really like. A child with Down syndrome will soften your hardened heart. Pre-natal testing may tell you a lot of things, but it cannot tell you the joy your special child will bring to your life.

Thank you Fr. Morris for your article.

Brian M.

Interesting viewpoint. Is your child a “challenge” because of his diagnosis of Down syndrome or because of his diagnosis of Autism? We prenatally screen for Down syndrome and you suggest that because some parents may not be up to the challenge they should be given “options”. I guess you are suggesting that we should be prenatally screening for autism as well. That day may soon be here.

The occurence of Down syndrome is about 1 in 733 and the occurence of autism is about 1 in 100 births. I think we should change our genetic research to focus on the genetic marker for “perfect”. Then we could have a simple positive/negative test for perfection. We could then place our children in an environment that shelters them from all risks so they can remain perfect little specimens. Of course the ravages of age will soon catch up with them.

If we can find the genetic marker for “perfection” would it be true that a child with Down syndrome would not be an overwhelming challenge? The “perfect” person would be able to handle it perfectly. I wonder if there is a genetic marker for “stress management”?

Dear Fr. Morris:

I am the father of a Down child who is now 16 years old. He is also autistic.

My Dave is non-verbal, not habit trained, and requires one - on - one, hand over hand supervision. He will never be capable of semi-independent living much less independent living. He will need the care and supervision of his mother and I and later his brothers for the rest of his life. In less politically correct times he represents what was referred to as “profoundly metally retarded”. He is who the states had in mind when they created institutions.

I am very greatful for all the support the states of CA, VA, and PA have afforded Dave over the 16 years. The cost to these states to attemt to educate and assist his mother and I have been astronomical and , unfortunantly, very little to show for it.

My ex wife and I knew we had a problem pregency. The Doctors suspected the trisomey 21 and advised us of the TOP option , which to my mind is their professional obligation. We declined the amio because in any event we were not going to act one way or the other. We were committed to our child and have remained so through our divorce.

My point is, we made a decision. We have both experienced joy AND consecquences. As have Dave’s brothers. It is my belief and conviction others should have the same option and should be free to their own decision. A Down child is a challenge and I will be the first to say not everyone is up to it. I do not regret our decision; however I would not want our approach imposed upon anyone by legal or social fiat.

Thank you for bringing this subject to light…. For those of you who think that it is O.K. to make a choice to take away a life only because it might look a little different, walk a little slower or learn at a different pace…SHAME ON YOU! Have you ever seen a DS kid laugh? smile? Recieved one of the BEST hugs you can imagine from a DS kid? Listened to them READ (yes, they read)? If your answer is NO…do it- go to Special Olympics, make an effort, because I tell you what, they are the superior human beings-not those of you in your little glass houses who “would never want a retarded child”. And, bless all of you with DS children or kids with other disabilities-I know it is not an easy job, but it one that is definitly worth the journey.

My daughter has down syndrome and is the highlight of our lives-life would not be the same with out her.

I am the proud grandfather (number seven) of a baby girl with Downs Syndrome.

Hitler only wanted the “perfect” arian race to rule.

Those who condemn one innocent life, condemn all life. We all come from the same source.

This week while shopping I watched a store clerk helping a young Down’s girl learn the ropes at the store. The instructor was giving her tasks to do that would make the merchandise more attractive to shoppers. The young Down’s girl/woman was beautiful, well dressed and had a very pleasant demeanor. The store was TJ Maxx. I commend them for hiring these young people. I will shop there every chance I get.

Amen

when are you going to get back to the church and stay out of politics–fox news lies! are you a liar too?

I was pregnant with my fourth child at age 39. I live in an area that has a good hospital but any “big issues” are taken care of in Denver and many times babies are put on a private jet and flown out of here, a process that takes time to coordinate and execute. My child was due in the dead of winter. My cousin had recently lost a child born that might have been saved had it been born at a major medical center instead of the small hometown hospital, but she didn’t know what was going to happen and prenatal testing would have revealed the child’s diagnosis and the delivery would have been handled differently. For those reasons, I chose to have the testing performed. Depending on the results, I would have traveled to Denver for the delivery well ahead of my due date. Fortunately, we were expecting a healthy baby.
Not all testing is to eliminate a child. Ours was done to give it a chance at life, if it needed it. Of course, anything could have gone wrong in the delivery or there could have been medical problems not detected by the genetic panel that was performed, but we felt we did what was in our child’s best interests. He was and is a special blessing given to us later in life, and would have been even if he were a Downs baby.

It’s scary to see the support some individuals have on this subject!

Charles with his crazy and selfish comments “In the 50’s, you could just institutionalize a retarded baby. Not so today. I see this test as a boon. I would not want a retarded child. This is a good thing.”

If his comments were based upon the baby’s gender that would create uproar. “ I see the baby gender test as a good thing, I don’t want a girl.”

Let me guess what Charles wants, The perfect child who will never get in trouble, have a 4.0 GPA, become a doctor, get married to the perfect spouse, and raise the perfect family.

Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, and life is a gift.

I didn’t know my oldest had downs until approximately a week after she was born. It was difficult to accept the fact she wouldn’t accomplish all the dreams her parents had for her though raising her has been no different than the other kids. In fact I believe I’m a better parent since I rid my mind of my goals I thought my child should become.

One of the greatest joys in this world is to have a son or daughter with Down Syndrome. Most are full of life, loving and very caring. I consider my 17 year old son with Down syndome to be just about the perfect child. A real blessing from God to me and everybody in contact with my son.

As a pediatrician, I feel I need to clarify how Down’s syndrome is developed. It is not handed down through genes like other traits are and is not a heritable condition, meaning you do not pass it on like other genetically inheritable conditions. It occurs, most commonly, when the mother’s egg splits when it matures and gets 2 copies of chromosome 21 instead of one. Less commonly, it can occur when the sperm has 2 copies of the chromosome. This can happen de novo at any time during reproductive life. It is not something that can be “weeded out” throught the gene pool by natural selection. Most people with Down’s do well and require little to no medical intervention. Those of you who are using this as an arguement to abort Down’s fetuses don’t have a leg to stand on. Nature, or God, as I see it has not weeded out Down’s. There is a reason for their existence and they and anyone else born with a “condition” are fully human and deserving of all the respect and dignity that most of us want for ourselves. It is human nature to want to take care of our children (just look at the love relatives of Down’s and other handicapped people feel at first seeing their children). Just think about how most people feel when they encounter a baby or child. We are hardwired to love and take care of them. It is our instinct to provide and care for our screaming totally defenseless babies. It is what makes us human and different from animals. I do not think they consume too many resources. Many people on this blog have a larger carbon footprint. Is this a reason to get rid of you? What about the “normal” or “near normal” kids who require extra resources or the adults who continue along with their bad habits (smoking, diet, obesity, drugs, noncomliant with their meds, drinking,etc) despite knowing the risks. Should we get rid of them too? It is not up to us to judge. There are certain moral absolutes. Most would not say that it is okay for people in India to abort female fetuses because they are less worthy or discarding female babies in China becuse they are not as valuable. To play devil’s advocate one could say if was judging on a relative value that maybe we should get rid of all the moral and secular relativists because we don’t see your world view to be a tenable one. Notice though that we don’t say that because even you have value. Some of the parents I admire most are those who take care of the children with issues(from severely handicapped to Down’s to developmental issuses to other medical problems). They have shown me what it means to love selflessly and how to give yourself to others no matter what. If I can be even half the parents they are, then I will have succeeded in this life.
God Bless You, Father Jonathan. Please keep pushing us to be morally honest.

Aa a pediatrician, I feel I need to clarify how Down’s syndrome is developed. It is not handed down through genes like other traits are and is not a heritable condition, meaning you do not pass it on like other genetically inheritable conditions. It occurs, most commonly, when the mother’s egg splits when it matures and gets 2 copies of chromosome 21 instead of one. Less commonly, it can occur when the sperm has copies of the chromosome. This can happen de novo at any time during reproductive life. It is not something that can be “weeded out” throught the gene pool by natural selection. Most people with Down’s do well and require little to no medical intervention. Those of you who are using this as an arguement to abort Down’s fetuses don’t have a leg to stand on. Nature, or God, as I see it has not weeded out Down’s. There is a reason for their existence and they and anyone else born with a “condition” are fully human and deserving of all the respect and dignity that most of us want for ourselves. It is human nature to want to take care of our children (just look at the love relatives of Down’s and other handicapped people feel at first seeing their children). Just think about how most people feel when they encounter a baby or child. We are hardwired to love and take care of them. It is our instinct to provide and care for our screaming totally defenseless babies. It is what makes us human and different from animals. I do not think they comsume too many resources. Many people on tthis blog have a larger carbon footprint. Is this a reason to get rid if you? What about the “normal” or “near normal” kids who require extra resources or the adults who continue along with their bad habits (smoking, diet, obesity, drugs, noncomliant with their meds, drinking,etc) despite knowing the risks. Should we get rid of them too? It is not up to us to judge. There are certain moral absolutes. Most would not say that it is okay for people in India to abort female fetuses because they are less worthy or discarding female babies in China becuse they are not as valuable. To play devil’s advocate one could say if was judging on a relative value that maybe we should get rid of all the moral and secular relativists because we don’t see your world view to be a tenable one. Notice though that we don’t say that because even you have value.

To Craig S,

Let me play devil’s advocate here. What is your job? Is it an absolute necessity to society, or could it be considered obsolete? Are you a perfect genetic specimen? What if some powerful person declared that you were a weak member of society for whatever reason they decided? Would you be willing to give your life for the good of the species then?

I must say your understanding of Christian teaching is not what I understand it to be. There is no dilemma here the Catholic Church at least teaches that God created the world in a perfect way, and then through man’s rejection of God death entered the world. It is my belief that God gave that person life, and we have no right to take it, self defense excluded. You say the sick, weak, and genetically deficient are a drain on society and holding us back, I say they are a blessing in their own way. At the very least they can be an excellent lesson in being humble. No person is 100% perfect, I have my flaws as do you, you open the door to selective breeding, and I predict society will be more damaged then if we had chose to love those who are sick, “weak”, or genetically “deficient.”

Peace,

Jim

I am the mother of a 14 year old autistic boy. Although this article is about Down Syndrome children, it’s easy to see that once scientists have the ability to detect ANY perceived defect, nobody will be safe. They will encourage the abortion of autistic kids, deaf kids, blind kids, bipolar kids, it’s hard to tell where the criteria of an “okay baby” will end. We are creating a new “perfect race”. It will lead to genetic selection. I’m sure someday they will encourage the abortion of people at risk for diabetes, at risk for being short, at risk to be fat. If we allow this nobody will be safe or protected.

I pray this madness stops. Even “non-perfect” children are a blessing from God.

Craig S,

Why do we want to strengthen our species?

mark

Fr.-
Thank you for this story. My husband and I lost our first (and only to date) baby because she had Downs. Her name is Emmanuela Therese, and I am PROUD that God gave her to us- if only for three months. Truly, when God gives you a Downs baby, He gives you a saint.

Leath,

“Ultimately the choice is up to the parents to make that determination for themselves about their UNBORN fetus.” Would you agree that the “subject of our discussion” (to avoid using any argueable term) is an UNBORN fetus through the 3rd trimester?

If so, how does this statement of yours coincide with your summing up below?

“To sum up what I have stated is that you as a third party (third party can be govt, religion, etc) should not have a overruling right to decide for two other people what they can do with their unborn fetus (excluding the third trimester).”

Why does a third party have an “overrulingt right” in the 3rd trimester? On what basis did you determine that this is correct?

Thanks,

mark

p.s. Don’t assume that I am necessarily on the opposite side of this arguement with you. I think the abortion debate is the stupidest debate since “I know you are but what am I”. The subject/decision are of extreme importance whether you are pro-choice or pro-life (I try to use the “pro” terms always). The “stupidest” applies to the absolutely emotional, sloganized arguements that come from both sides of the issue and convince no one of anything.

Leath,

You did not answer my question unless the answer to the question of whether someone is “a person directly effected by the decision” - unless you are saying that whether they are a person or not is DETERMINED by their parents point of view. Whether or not these parents have a legal, moral or other right to terminate is a separate question - and probably a useful one at that. But I am not asking that.

Typically, long winded answers to short direct questions, reflect avoidance of the issue. Perhaps you are not sentient yourself.

Sleep easy…

mark

I would like to reply mainly to Charles’ comments about no longer being able to institutionalize retarded babies and that he doesn’t want one. Speaking from the experiences of having a sister with Down’s Syndrome who is currently 23 years old, I can only say that you have no idea what you are missing. Emily is the greatest blessing my family has ever been given. She has given us so much joy and actually has completely changed our family in regards to our faith. She has brought us all closer to God, and has given us a greater respect for the human person in general. My other sister, who is pregnant with her first child, appears to be blessed with a normal, healthy child…she and her husband are considering adopting a Down’s baby. I will say that the world will be worse off without these special individuals in it. God spare us that.

As the mother of a 17 year old daughter with Down Syndrome I can attest to the profound beneficial effect she has had on our family. She is the youngest of three and her siblings have turned out to be very compassionate, kind and patient young adults. I can assure you (from seeing their early childhood personalities) these were not inborn qualities! Also, my husband and I have learned to treasure the simple, beautiful pleasures in life and to cherish each day. Our daughter is capable but just a bit slower than the rest. Slowing down is a good thing since you take the time to stop and smell the roses. Sure there are times that are tough, but isn’t this the case with any child? I truly hope that parents who decide to take these tests will look to the whole picture. Somehow the medical community has focused on this Syndrome as being less than human. I wonder how many of the researchers or doctors involved in promoting these tests have every known a person with Down Syndrome. Perhaps they don’t understand the consequences of their actions and are just judging from the surface information. It’s a sad day when we judge a book by it’s cover.
Peace to you, Father Jonathan, for sharing your insights and to all those who are posting comments. If we take the time to listen to each other, we all benefit.

As I read these comments, I can hear my 19 yr.-old son playing on his wii, a system he received for his high school graduation and mastered in about 2 seconds. On Saturday, he will go to work, a job he has held for over 3 years. He went in and filled out the aplication on his own and went to the interview dressed to the nines. He bowled on his high school’s jr. varsity team and received this year’s Most Outstanding Male Bowler award, voted on by his teammates. He was really adorable when he was little and has grown into a handsome young man who cares about the feelings of others. He gets impatient when he doesn’t get his way and has a more well developed sense of humor than most people I know. Oh, he has Down Syndrome, too. Would I have chosen this for him, no. Mostly because of how the world views anyone that is not up to snuff. Would I trade him, NO!!!! There is a church in Germany that has a ceiling painting of little angles, all of whom appear to have the facial characteristics of DS. Makes one think that there was a Plan from the beginning to have these special people in the world.

Father Jonathan,

I really appreciated you opinions on this topic and the engaging dialog that has followed. You are clearly a compassionate and kind person. Please keep advocating for the rights of individuals with Down syndrome and others who may become victims of pre-natal genetic profiling.

I sometimes wonder if our culture is not a victim of the seeds that it sows. The Roman Catholic church (I am a proud catholic - so this pains me to write) has not historically been a strong supporter of individuals with cognitive and intellectual disabilities. This may well be a significant contributor to our current culture that does not value the contributions of individuals with Down syndrome, but views them as a burden that causes pain and suffering to the individual and his/her family.

As late as the 1970’s parish priests would regularly counsel families to place their child with a cognitive or intellectual disability into an institution. They justified this by, suggesting it was better for the parents and siblings and would avoid embarrassment and other hardships. And my parish priest still believes that our society “lost something” when we closed the institutions.

The Roman Catholic Church continues to limit access to the sacraments and other aspects of parish life to individuals with intellectual and cognitive disabilities. The program in many parishes (SPRED) is based on a very limited understanding of the needs of the individuals and continues to perpetuate outdated thoughts and beliefs. Our Parish has decided to adopt the SPRED program, but the program is conducted with no input or active participation from individuals with disabilities. Yet, in my secular life, I work with self advocates who regular advocate for themselves and are able to express their needs and desires. It is unclear, why the Catholic Church does not step up and take a leadership role in this area.

I have asked the US Conference of Catholic Bishops to publicly support the Kennedy - Brownback Prenatal Diagnosis Act (and similar legislation in the US House). Yet, they remain silent on this topic. Again, where is the leadership? It is Down syndrome today — tomorrow we will have the capacity to screen and eliminate prenatally more genetic conditions. The seeds we sow today, will yield unexpected fruit tomorrow.

The percentage of students with disabilities that our Catholic Schools serve is significantly below the demographic representation that would be expected. My parish school has few students with any learning disability — yet they continue to communicate that they provide a better education than our public schools — who are required to educate all students regardless of the challenges that they present. Again, where is the leadership and how are we showing our modern society that we value all people when we exclude them from our Catholic schools?

Again, I thank you for sowing the seeds. I only hope that I see more leadership in this area from the Catholic Church.

Craig,

But, you don’t understand the origin of Down syndrome. Down syndrome is rarely passed on genetically (not inherited), rather it occurs during very early cell division. I guess you can take your theory of Darwin and throw it to the lions — like the Romans.

All life is precious? Then tell why God created a world where only the strongest life survives. Every creature on this planet is subject to death buy a stronger creature, usually a predator. Seems to me the creationist have a dilemma. They state they believe God created the all that is in this world, and set the stage for all living species to strengthen by the strongest surviving, and the sick and weak being weeded out. Of course, mankind supports and survives its sick and weak, because we have gained enough power, knowledge, whatever to exclude ourselves from this God made process. Or at least we think we have. God put a in place a method for weeding out the sick and weak then we rose above it. Since we have now taken on the responsibility for survival of our species by excluding ourselves from the natural world, how do you suggest we manage keeping our species growing stronger, and not continuing the breeding in of genes that would not actually survive in the natural, god made process. We took on this responsibility. To say all life is precious is an idealogical position that clearly not even God buys into since the natural world isn’t structure so, and creates a situation where we degrade as a species. To remove the sick, weak, and genetically deficient wears on our sense of decency. Well I say if you cant handle the big decisions go back to living in the wild running around like a wild animal where God has already taken care of this for you. Since we have the power to determine our own destiny we also have to occasionally make the big decisions including how to manage our species so that is strengthens, and yes some times they hurt, are hard, or even ugly. Compassion has no place in survival, that is why there is none in the wild. Hard to be responsible isn’t it? Lets try the other side of the coin. Where will we be in 1000 years if we keep recycling genetic flaws back into the species? A write earlier suggested that Darwin says that an anomaly will cycle itself out of the system, this is true a predatory environment, but not in one that nurtures its genetic flaws. So there you go, I have given you the solution, banish abortion… instead feed them to the lions. The Romans had it right after all.

I was born with Spina Bifida and am appalled when “normal” folks believe it’s their right to decide who is worthy of life and who should be aborted. Thank God that these tests were not available in my mother’s day. I have been married for over 20 years, have two beautiful, healthy, intelligent children and one new grandchild. I do not view myself as different or handicapped in any way. While pregnant, I was given the prenatal testing to make sure that I was not passing along my birth defect. The outcome of these tests would not have swayed my decision to have both my children. If God chose to bless me with children, I was accepting them in whatever condition they arrived. Nobody’s perfect. If you start weeding out “undesirable traits”, where and when will the line be drawn? IQ? Height? Color? Let’s hope that when that day comes, the majority of us fall in the “normal” category.

RE: Silence Dogood

You are mixing apples and oranges, or should I say blastocysts and grown human beings.

First, I know of no laws that COMPELL me to stop at an accident or REQUIRE me to provide medical treatment for which I am not trained to give.

Second, you are talking about saving a life that by ANY definition is considered to be sentient life. As was my original post the definition of WHEN sentient life begins is NOT clear. And, if we reduce our argument to simple LIFE, then we should all strive to live as Buddhist, not Christians, as we would then consider ALL life sacred, not just humans, especially white ones who happen to be Christian.

Third, it my referral of witch burnings it was the most pious of our country who mistook retardation and other genetic ailments as witchcraft or possession.

Fourth, you cannot both disregard science when it suits you and then claim allegiance to its findings when it supports your faith based views.

While your story is emotionally compelling, it changes nothing with regards to natures inclination towards natural selection. We wage war in order to secure natural resources because we BELIEVE that we are entitled to it because we are “better” then they are. We put criminals to death because we BELIEVE that it creates a better climate for US to live. WE make these CHOICES that result in the deaths of SENTIENT beings, many of whom are guilty of simply not being US.

Spare me your sentimentality and pious “right to life” rethoric until you choose to protect ALL life, not just that which exists in wombs other than your own.

To Jan-S:

“In my mind, it’s murder once a baby is born. Even defenseless as it is, a born baby is a person. Unborn? No.”

So, in essence you’re saying if the baby is fully developed physically, its vital systems are working and intact and postured for delivery it isn’t a person untill its completely out (born)? With due respect, I find your rationale and ideology most interesting, yet plain scary! But, that’s your “fundamental option”. Personally, I will opt for pro life since I don’t know what’s in store for me when I cross over the threshold of eternity when I leave this world.

I couldn’t agree more. Whether we want to admit this or not, as a society, the American culture has been so de-sensitized to the value of human life before birth, that “removing” “sub-human” existence is an “option” to parents and society as a whole. It’s the slippery slope mentality that was feared when Row v Wade came down. The de-valued human being wouldn’t stop with the unborn. It has progressed to other “unwanted” human beingsn that are better off dead.

Science is providing knowledge. Knowledge is a threat to the anti-life attitude. Facts are being distorted or ignored to maintain ignorance. There is an old line that holds true in the debate of life and its value….don’t confuse me with facts! For the anti-life forces, rhetoric and justification are the only means of support left for the Roe v Wade supporters. It’s all very sad.

To All with great stories about how someone has touched your life…

I am glad to know that you all have found something wonderful in your associations with those born different than us or gone through some trial in life.

However, those have all been your choices and you have had to accept them, for good or ill. The main point I and a few others have tried to make is that we aren’t saying that those people are not special, just that you should respect the decisions of others who may be faced with similar situations as yourself.

What turned out to be fortunate for you and those whose life you choose to share with, may not be for another.

We all make our choices, you should allow others to make thiers, whether you agree with them or not.

Peace out!

Great article! Thank you for standing up for all babies, not just those born without apparent challenges. When I was pregnant with my first child, my doctor was astounded when I refused Maternal Serum Alpha-Fetoprotein Screening (MSAFP). The results from the screening are combined with the mother’s age and ethnicity in order to assess probabilities of potential genetic disorders.

You see, when I was 12 years old, my mother gave birth to my stillborn brother, who was diagnosed with several genetic abnormalities. This lead to me being at a little higher risk of having a child with genetic abnormalities.

I explained to my doctor that even if my child had some sort of “abnormality”, nothing would change. While every mother hopes for a “perfect” baby, how can we possibly think its okay to terminate a pregnancy due to possible challenges that child may face?

Mankind as the measure and reference point of all morality coupled with the practice of eugenics?

Hmmm… sounds familiar. Didn’t we go through this with Nazi Germany in WWII?

In the 50’s, you could just institutionalize a retarded baby. Not so today. I see this test as a boon. I would not want a retarded child. This is a good thing.

Charles.

It is understandable that a person w/a child w/disabilities would need a break from their caring duties. However to favor abortion now seems disingenuous as they use the word”I” so often in their posting. My interest is not in judging but pointing out that it seems we always get back to cultural issues in today’s world. I guess taking care of an aging parent makes euthanasia acceptable to them as well. Reading the posts it is easy to have feelings toward those discouraged by the life of caring for another who cannot care for themselves but most of the people I’ve known have done so w/dignity and love and not been so concerned about their own life. I wish there were no disease or problems in the world today but we each need to deal with our problems and need to look to God for the strength to manage them. God bless all who try. peace…T

@ Private Citizen

“Selective breeding is evil.

Stronger, healthier humans are the products of Hiterlian science.

All life is precious and none is a waste or a drain on resources. Others will pick up the slack or make the sacrifice.

Long live the human race.”

Selective breeding is evil? Mankind has been doing it not only with themselves but with other speicies on this planet for millienia.

Stronger, healhier humans are a product of advancement in technology, medical knowledge, and the pursuit of individuals for themselves and others.

All life is *not* precious. Life can be cruel and sadistic. Life can be overabundant and overindulgent. Life can choke out other life for its own selfishness. Humans are out of balance with their environment. We would do well to limit ourselves wherever possible.

To Brian:

“Throws a wrench into the whole evolution thing, according to the Darwinists, A Downs baby would be worked out the gene pool at some point.”

Not really, according to Darwin those with undesired genetic traits would usually fall victim to natural selection. We as a species have managed to avert natural selection to a large extent through medical science and protecting those who would not normally survive on their own.

So, we further perpetuate a weak gene pool.

To Mark of Highland Village,

“I made a simple request which I repeat here: “Specifically explain the basis for the absolute certainty in your belief that an unborn child is not a person and therefore “not a person directly affected by the decision.” You never explained this - in any way.”

I did answer your question; you just didn’t like my answer and refused to see it for what it was. But I guess it wasn’t “direct” enough.

Ultimately the choice is up to the parents to make that determination for themselves about their UNBORN fetus. The wording you use in unborn person implies sapience, self awareness, ability to make decisions. Something an unborn fetus simply isn’t capable of.

My personal inclination is that anything in the 3rd trimester is off limits and the law should reflect that appropriately.

“Yuor answer was “sorry, I can’t argue faith.” I don’t understand as I never mentioned faith. I simply asked a logical question about a 10 minute span of time. In fact, I didn’t even claim an unborn fetus was a human life. I simply stated that if I didn’t know, I felt I should err on the side of life. Why would you bring faith into this discussion? I certainly did not. I asked a logical question. I am asking for a logical and DIRECT answer?”

Forgive me if I made a false assumption regarding your faith (faith is belief, not necessarily religious). I assumed that it is your belief that an unborn fetus is a person with all rights and privileges afforded to you and me under the law.

But you are basically making a judgment for yourself, in deciding to err on the side of life (whatever definition you are using). That may be fine for you, but other people aren’t you… so why would you make that judgment for them?
For me, life and sentience are two separate things. Which are you referring to?

“Are you saying that there should be no laws protecting children of ANY AGE from their parents decision to terminate them? If so, we have an entirely different set of differences.”

Where are you drawing such an absurd conclusion? We already have laws that protect human life on the books, regardless of age. Obviously once a child is born into the world it is assumed to have all of the same basic rights to life as you or me. I think this an overly emotional response on your part to make such an absurd conclusion based on what I had written. Please try to keep it within the context of the discussion.

“Otherwise, my simple desire is that you tell me why you are convinced that 5 minutes before birth a fetus is not a human life.”

Mark, I never once made any statement to that effect. Quite to the contrary, I stated that my personal inclination, on more than one occasion, leaned towards protecting the fetus when it is in its third trimester.

To sum up what I have stated is that you as a third party (third party can be govt, religion, etc) should not have a overruling right to decide for two other people what they can do with their unborn fetus (excluding the third trimester). You don’t. Go home, leave them alone and let them make their own decisions. I am sorry you feel an overwhelming need to protect “life” (whatever definition you are using) but it doesn’t concern you. An unborn fetus of another couple isn’t of your concern.

Like many of the writers, I too have a child with Down Syndrome. I knew from the time I was 15 months pregnant that my child would be born with Down Syndrome. I had three different doctors ask me if I wanted to abort my child, I never even considered it.

My son will be seven in July and is one of the highlights of my life. Yes, these children can grow up to have problems, I think that just proves that they are children, not something less. I know some of the children have many health problems, but so can any other child.

My son may not fit the world’s definition of perfect. He may have different features, and learn at a slower pace, but to me, he is much more perfect than I.

I have noticed for a long time that there are not as many people with down syndrome. We all know why that is, but the world is really missing the genuine love that they bring to this world. My cousin is mentally retarded. He is 57 years old with the mind of a six year old and he has brought a lifetime of joy and happiness to our family like no other person can.

This is just the start. The less we exercise our virtues of patience and humility, it won’t be just mentally handicapped people that are inconvenient. Our need for instant gratification will prove any person needing our care to be inconvenient and unworthy of our time and effort.

As a youth minister in a large southern Catholic church, I have long taught our teens of the slippery slope that abortion and euthanasia lead to. We have already seen that the unborn are treated like garbage, those unable to speak for themselves (those considered vegetative) are treated worse than the animals and prisoners our politicians and judges will protect based on cruel and unusual punishment.

Five years ago the British medical community claimed it is a “sin” to have a child with a defect when we can detect them before birth. They have also claimed that cloning will enable us to create bodies without brains to use for organ donation. Some of these claims are wild and futuristic, but the fact they are being thought of is scary.

I usually end my lesson with a bit of satire in the vein of “A Modest Proposal” (Johnathan Swift: 1729). When it comes to abortion, what is the difference between six inches and 18 years. Lets just allow parents to abort their children up to 18 years of age. After all, born is just an extension of unborn. If one has no rights, neither does the other since they both and no immediate value to society. It is said a pig has more value than a child.

Scary, yes, talked about by human ethicists, yes. Western society is on the verge of embracing what Adolf Hitler preached and practiced (along with other Eugenists). We are indeed in a brave new world.

Fr. Jonathan,

Thank you for taking a public stand on behalf of persons with developmental disabilities. This population strggles with health and economic issues their entire lives. However, in most cases, these folks are the kindest, most loving, honest people in our society.

Father Jonathan, You are fortunate to have Downs Syndrome relatives - they are very special, loving individuals. Like all human beings, they are here for a purpose no matter what their physical limitations may be.

I wonder how much longer God will allow all people of this world, His children, to be misguided by the infestation and manipulation of the Evil One.

Well said! All life is precious.

Father Jonathan thanks for the article. It’s heartwarming reading others experiences with Downs Syndrome children. My situation is a little different than most in that 32 years ago my wife gave birth to triplet girls. Two were identical with Downs Syndrome and the fratenal twin was “normal.” We learned early on what the government safety net was when a social worker visited the house and said to be fair to the “normal” child we should put the other two in an institution. My wife quickly threw her out of the house.

Growing up the three of them went to the same schools although a couple of years apart. They were all very close. They all competed on the high school track team. Of course that wouldn’t have happened with our other daughter, but it did and they were treated very well.

Thanks to our two DS daughters my wife and I became heavily involved in Special Olympics. Both daughters have competed internataionally in sports such as speedskating and cycling. We have learned over the years that there is nothing that people with mental disabilities can’t do when they put their mind to it. Both daughters have also participated in non-Special Olympics activities. Over the years they belonged to a US Cycling Federation cycling team and to this day belong to a Speedskating club that has sent many athletes to the regualar Olympics.

In response to Sheila that people with mental disabilites can be mean, etc. I can honestly say that in the 20 plus years of dealing with people with mental disablilities I have never seen a mean Downs Syndrome person. In fact just the opposite. I don’t think there is a mean bone in any of their bodies. Stubborn at times, YES.

Both daughters have been productive members of our community going on 15 years. They both work as baggers at competing super markets. They love to work more than anything else. So for those of you with younger DS children they are not destined for a life working in sheltered workshops.

Now back to the original topic. There is no way we would have aborted our children even if we knew there was going to be an issue. Not too long ago there was a special on the National Geographic channel that had three dimensional sonograms following the growth of fetus from the time of conception. After watching that I don’t know how anyone can not say that a fetus isn’t a life.

God bless and good luck to all of you with Downs Syndrome children. All of our lives have been enriched by living with them.

Father Morris:

Great article BUT those of us in the Down syndrome community NEVER lead with Down syndrome in describing individuals for many of the reasons suggested in your article. People begin to see the Down syndrome first, and the individual second. Please continue to be our advocate and next time talk about “babies with Down syndrome” or “fetuses with Down syndrome.” I know that could create a print problem because it is longer text but it is a very important differentiation.

Thanks so much for giving this issue visibility.

SARANDALL

I have worked with some of the most disabled people you will ever see and many of them were also the biggest blessing to know. I would never have been so blessed had they been aborted. My sister-in-law, who also worked with these individuals, have said these people are the reason she DOES believe in abortion, as no one should have to live like that. In my forty years on earth, I have found that we ALL have to live with one disability or another but most of us are able to disguise ours. Oh, that I could be as big a blessing to others as these individuals have been to me.