Obama’s Loyalty to Liberation Theology
By Father Jonathan Morris
FOX News Religion Contributor
You would think Senator Obama’s letter of resignation from Trinity United Church was a good move.
That is, unless you have read the letter. And from what I’m witnessing, it seems nobody has—or perhaps they have read it with only an eye for politics.
The left is cheering the senator’s decision to leave the church as courageous. The right is questioning why it took so long.
But has anyone read the letter’s content for what it says about Senator Obama, the man?
In one paragraph—in one line—in an otherwise official-sounding communiqué, Senator Obama gives us insight into what he really thinks about what’s going on at Trinity. I consider it by far the most telling piece of information yet about whether his pastor problems have anything to do with his readiness to be the President of the United States of America.
But first, let’s recall: When the original videos of Rev. Wright made their rounds, Senator Obama assured the press this was not the man he knows; it was out of context and an unjust caricature of a very good and learned person, his friend and spiritual guide. But Rev. Wright kept talking. He made his way to the National Press Club and spewed out more venom, including continued praise of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and the communist Sandinista regime of Nicaragua; his theory that the U.S. government created the HIV virus to get rid of racial minorities; a demand for the U.S. government to apologize for slavery. Of most note, however, was his claim that the only reason Senator Obama had distanced himself from Rev. Wright was because he wants to get elected. “He didn’t distance himself,” Wright announced, “He had to distance himself, because he’s a politician, from what the media was saying I had said, which was anti-American.” You would think a spiritual mentor of twenty years would know the mind and heart of his disciple. Who knows?
In any case, Senator Obama was now forced to make a definitive break. Curiously, he broke only from Rev. Wright and maintained his membership in Trinity. He explained his decision by pointing to Rev. Wright’s pending retirement and the new leadership of Rev. Otis Moss, whom he then identified as “a wonderful young pastor” whom he knew and trusted. — Loyalty was what came to mind.
Then comes ”Pastorgate II”. A new video recording is released showing Roman Catholic priest, Michael Pfleger, giving a racist, sexist, crude and demeaning sermon, a stinging defense of Senator Obama against “white entitlement”. It quickly came to light that Fr. Pfleger has been twice a major recipient of earmark funds from Senator Obama’s political advocacy, and more importantly, he is another one of his longtime “spiritual guides” (Rev. Obama’s own words). Was his relationship with Fr. Pfleger part of the “context” which Senator Obama said was needed in order to understand Rev. Wright’s inflammatory words? Should we understand Senator Obama’s religious convictions by looking at his other spiritual role models? In 2004 Senator Obama told The Chicago Sun-Times that Fr. Pfleger helped him “keep his moral compass straight.”
For those of us who knew of Fr. Pfleger’s long history of controversy in the South Side of Chicago, we’re saddened, but not surprised by the show. He is a social activist inspired by liberation theology who for many years has watched his step closely so as not to break canon law (Church law) and thus give his local bishop legal grounds to remove him from ministry.
What was more surprising than the content of his sermon, however, was its locale and timing. The sermon was given at Trinity church last week and under the new leadership and at the explicit request of that “wonderful young pastor”, Rev. Otis Moss.
Now, let’s not be too quick to judge. We know sometimes guests say some unwelcome things. I was hoping this had been the case here. It wasn’t.
At the end of Fr. Pfleger’s despicable tirade, and to the sound of feral applause, Rev. Otis—Senator Obama’s new pastor—had this to say: “we thank God for the message and we thank God for the messenger”. If Senator Obama was waiting for good reason to resign his membership from Trinity, there it was, staring, yelling at us all.
Rev. Wright’s replacement—a man whom Senator Obama knew well and praised for his leadership just weeks before—was acting like Rev. Wright and even inviting another one of Senator Obama’s spiritual guides to come and act like Rev. Wright, too.
It all sounds so implausible. Could it be that a party’s presidential nominee could get it so wrong, so many times?
But as I said, none of this history comes close to the importance of the content of Senator Obama’s letter of resignation. As I said, one line in it was the single most telling piece of information yet about whether Senator Obama’s pastor problems have anything to say about his readiness to be president.
In their letter Barack and Michelle Obama direct themselves to Rev. Otis Moss, the man who just one week before thanked God “for the message and the messenger”: Fr. Michael Pfleger.
Their thoughts about the type of leadership the new pastor is giving? “We also have come to appreciate your ministry and both think you have been, and will be, a wonderful pastor for years to come.”
I’ll let others decide if Senator Obama’s letter of resignation from Trinity was a good political move. To me, on a very different level, it spoke volumes.
God bless, Father Jonathan
P.S. In reference to Fr. Pfleger, I spoke of “liberation theology.” For more information on this theological trend as it relates to Senator Obama’s own background, you may want to look at my column from last week, you can find it here . Here is also a link to my comments on this subject on yesterday’s edition of FOX & Friends.
Father Jonathan Morris is author of the new book, “The Promise: God’s Purpose and Plan for when Life Hurts”. For information go to www.fatherjonathan.com
A quick correction:
Cheryl in NC, this is not the first time that a woman has run for President.
Victoria Woodhull was, in 1870.
In 2000, Elizabeth Dole from your own great state of North Carolina mounted a campaign for presidency. I know because I sent her a contribution. Sadly, she did not got too far into the primary season before finances forced her to withdraw. Still, it was a legitimate run.
I am certain that you meant that a female candidate had not gotten as far as Hillary Clinton did in her race for a major party nomination, which is true.
Regards,
Walt
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Dear FR. Jonathan:
It was so incredibly disapponting to hear Fr. Pfleger rant just like any other self made preacher. I was always proud to think that the Catholic Church has all the safe guards and magisterium teachings to produce priests who followed the teachings of Christ and could not stand up and be a Rev. Wright. What a nice example to the world - or so I thought. Then along comes Fr. Pleger and Cardinal George to prove us wrong. A two week suspension is not enough to tell the world that the Catholic Church is going to see to it that such messages have no place in christian thinking. We need a strong message - unfortunately little happened way late.
Jen from Clarksville, Maryland
Barack and Michelle Obama hate whitey. It is obivious in everything I have read and seen from them. Why is this fact not discussed more on NBC, CBS, ABC or CNN? Why is George Soros that powerful in this country? Is our national media, once the envy of an entire planet 30 years ago, now such a pathetic lap dog for liberal socialist George Soros that it is incapable of reporting objectively?
God save us from ourselves.
Fr. Jonathan
Mr. Pfleger, I will never call him father because he does not deserve the respect or honor, should be defrocked.
If, as you stated, Pfleger was always on the edge of disaster for his remarks and actions, why didn’t the Church, his Cardinal, step in a long time ago and put him in a “time out”. The two weeks is going to be filled with his “flock” complaining and whining.
The Cardinal should remove Pfleger pending full investigation into his entire priesthood and then recommend discipline, whether it be reassignment to a non preaching position, defrocking, or return to the pulpit, albiet at a totally different location and demographic, like Nebraska.
The church Pfleger presides over now is not a Catholic Church, does not follow Catholic teachings, and violated the tax exempt status seeing as how Pfleger and Obama funneled over 200K from Illinois to the parish.
Liberation Theology and Black Liberation Theology are not doctrine or dogma or part of the catechism of the Catholic Church. If his parishoners believe it and Pfelger preaches and supports it, they are not Catholics.
P.S. Fr…I just got your book for my b-day yesterday. I look forward to reading it and seeing how it can help with my present situation in my life.
Fr Pleiglers suspension is good enough. I have heard bits from news that He does do good in the Chicago area, this merits at least aknowledgment. This does not excuse bad behavior though.I do not believe His ranting is over, with the support of is concregation I see this moving to a different level.The concregation most likely feels attacked at there very core.
Fr J does the catholic church allow other theological thinking of this type or is this just a closet veiw exposed?
BB
Dave B: I absolutely agree with respecting someone who is true to their stated principles. You do not have to agree with someone to respect them. I think if we pushed this idea a little more, we might have more legitimate debates on the issues of our time.
My suspicion is that many of the arguments put forth by all political parties will not stand up to the light of day. That is why we resort to petty accusations and characterizations. How many times do you hear a statistic quoted which you know to be absolutely false, and the person making the statement is NEVER questioned on his or her facts?
My viewpoint is that there are two basic issues at work. One is the lack of education and discipline of the electorate, and the other, more insidious issue is the manipulation of the electorate by the true enemies of our society. This of course, tends to be the conservative viewpoint, and reveals my political leanings. We have been “dumbing down” our citizenry for almost three generations now, and this opens the door for all kinds of manipulations by people with agendas deeply hidden.
It takes hard work to maintain a democracy, and too few are willing to pay the price.
Steve: your comment about Catholics or people who are Protestant or any other faith is true based on my experience. living your faith as a Christian certainly involves much more than touching the bases by going to church on Sunday. It is core beliefs in my opinion, leading a moral life with an ethical and compassionate approach in dealing with others and reflecting how Christ would want us to act in a loving a charitable way toward others. Many times I can be more comfortable and respect my Jewish friends than some Catholics who profess 1 way but act another way. It goes to a previous question I had for Fr. Jonathan on regnocentrism and whether that is connected to liberation theology since so much needs to be done by governments and man in the absence of the presince of God. peace…K
Dear Fr. Jonathan,
As I write this letter I am looking into the eyes of Mary, the Church’s mother and my spiritual mother. I see in her eyes much sorrow. By what authority does any parish priest have to defy his legitimate superiors by allowing them to continue to behave in such a lawless and inappropriate way? The parishioners of Fr. Pfleger’s church are demonstrating because Archbishop Francis George suspended Fr. Pfleger for two weeks. In my opinion both Fr. Pfleger and his parishioners are acting in defiance against the rightful authority vested in the office of Archbishop George to admonish Fr. Pfleger. What are we becoming when we no longer respect legitimate authority and consequent sanctions? It is one thing to be upset when one’s “favorite” priest is reprimanded. But in this case there is overwhelming evidence of longstanding “pushing of the envelope” on Fr. Pfleger’s part and he needs to be restrained and contained. It makes me very sad to witness this type of flagrant defiance by both clergy and church members because in this case it is completely unjustified and morally reprehensible.
Please edify and respond. Thank you.
Jerry S - I truly respect someone who holds to their moral ideals even if I don’t agree with them. It seems too often that those that take very public black or white stands on issues are often the first to found compromising those ideals. I have much more respect for someone that stands by those morals because they truly believe in them even if my positions are different.
I find it increasingly hard to choose political candidates because it’s very hard to “know” the real them. What you get is a manufactured image. What we seem to be left with is voting based on political party agendas rather than actual candidate positions. We see comments like, “Well they’re a Democrat so they automatically believe in abortion on demand, disbanding the military and changing the National Anthem to Kumbaya”. Or conversely, “They’re a Republican so they automatically believe in Christianity, arming everyone over the age of 10 with howitzers and changing the National Anthem to “Our God is An Awesome God”. What I’d like to know is what does the candidate see as the direction for the country? How will they achieve that direction? And lastly, how do they plan to represent all of their constituents once elected, not just the half that voted for them?
Hi, Father Jonathon. I hope you’re doing well. I’ve reviewed the foregoing posts and I have a few things that might be of interest, except for those who are Obamaites.
I’m not buying the heavily retouched photos presented to us by Obama and the Obama press. I look ed for the warts, pimples, and wrinkles (aka critical thinking) and here’s what I found. Obama is exclusively a social and political creature, which is the same basis used by communism. This only reveals itself in his wayward comments because he does a masterful job of concealing it in his public persona. Remember his ‘religion and guns’ comment? That’s the real Obama. Is he a Christian? No more than the old-time comedians who painted themselves with blackface were black. His ‘Christian roots’ are a political ruse to garner votes.
When I see him giving his political speeches he always looks so cocksure of himself. That demeanor may appeal to younger viewers, but it tells me he’s either irresponsible or he’s convinced he’s right and everyone else is wrong. Looking at it from his long-time social/political perspective I’d say he’s convinced of the rightness of his cause. But- he can only carry it out with deception.
I predict he will continue this deception, spewing out (nuanced) anti-American propaganda pieces along the way, at McCain, with our enemies looking on approvingly. As President he will no doubt steal from all the rich Capitalists and give it to the proletariat. Or maybe he’ll invite Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards over for a visit.
Jr. Senator Obama is wrong about everything.
BTW, folks, don’t let priests like Fr. Fleger disturb you. After Vatican II, the Catholic Church of America drifted away quite a bit. So far, in fact, that it became distinguishable from the Roman Catholic Church. It had accepted some non-acceptable liberal notions and even liberation theology. Keep that in mind and pray that they amend their errors.
I’m not sure if it is a type-o, but in your article you refer to Senator Obama as “Rev. Obama”. If this is intentional, I expected more from a representative of the Catholic Church, regardless of your personal opinions.
Very Sad,
Susan
In regard to Father Jonathan’s question….are we making too big a thing out of Senator Obama’s “churchgate”?…..Absolutely not.
I believe it’s most important for us to closely look at Senator Obama or anyone running for political office, including their religious beliefs. I firmly believe a person’s religious beliefs influence their lives, and therefore their actions. Senator Obama has clearly shown his beliefs in misguided spiritual teachings, so much so that he applauds their efforts to refuel hatred and mistrust in the common people. Very dangerous thinking……a president is suppose to unite people, not divide them.
Take care,
Laura
Dave,
I agree that the trend is worrisome. As for myself, from what I have read (statements he has made in a 2004 interview among them), I think that he is most likely a Universalist. Many universalists call themselves Christians. I, personally, do not equate the two. That is another thread all it’s own, however. That being said, I know MANY people who call themselves Christians, attend church and outside of that act as anything but.
Many “Christians” have forgotten (or don’t know enough about their own faith to realize) that it is a God given right to worship whatever, or whoever, you like. It doesn’t mean that you are correct, but you do have that right. Also, that hatred, for whatever reason, is worrisome, because the New Testament (and I have read it more than a few times) does not advocate hate. “Love your enemy” and pray for them…not hate or persecute them.
Assuming that the faith someone adheres to is compatible with my own core beliefs, I would much prefer the person of a different faith, who is faithful to those beliefs, than to a “professed” Christian, whose deeds reflect anything but.
I have heard the same drivel concerning Catholics. I am a Protestant. I gladly embrace embrace them as religious brothers and sisters, however. I am not one to quibble over fringe arguments.
Fr. Jonathan: You commented about how we might say something in a forum but not to someone’s face. I agree that a lot of people hide behind e-mails/telephones, etc.. It is a perion of non-personal discourse. A shame and I do not express myself as well in e-mails as I do in formal writing or face to face discussions. A digression from my real question you might answer. In development of our Catholic faith a lot has changed since Vatican II it seems to me. Was that the onset of “theocentrism” which has led to “regnocentrism” as Pope Benedict IVI has discussed in his writings about Jesus of Nazareth? If so, have we in some way as men (or women) caused the problem of moral decay and increased narcissm due to thinking man rather than God through man can help bring about love, peace & happiness in the world? Please set me straight on whether I’m thinking about this correctly. Peace, K
Someone in this discussion actually wrote, “in my limited theological understanding is that jesus came for the poor, oppressed”. I point this out because it illustrates a common theme in liberation theology, and it is not supported by a fair minded reading of the Bible. The Biblical text says that Jesus Christ came for everyone’s sake, not just the poor and oppressed. The only Biblical mention suggesting that He came for one group and not another was some of his statements about coming for the people of the nation of Israel and not the gentiles, and that was a temporary situation (my theological training by the way is United Methodist, not that I think it matters here).
The point of Fr. Morris’s article is about Obama’s allegiance to his former church and the legitimate questions raised by it. Does Obama see the Biblical Jesus that came for all of human-kind or does he see the Jesus of liberation theology that has taken sides in our petty squabbles and wants to see one group of people bought down so as to some how benefit another? It’s the legitimate question that should be asked of anyone who believes in or is mentored by the practitioners of liberation theology. Is he a Christian, a Marxist, or does he believe he can some how pick and choose what he wants from both? How Obama answers that question says a lot about whether we want him as our president.
He doesn’t need to be a Christian, but he should not be someone who sees class and ethnicity as legitimate causes for conflict. Clearly the clergy that he has seen as mentors for much of his life, and that he still supports, do. What does it say about him? Plenty, I think.
Response to Dave B
Thanks for getting back in to the spirit of discussion. I also believe that it does not matter which religion a candidate professes. What does matter is if he or she is true to that professed faith. That in my mind is a valid measurement of the character of the person. Mr. Obama freely associated himself with the Christian faith, and I think it is reasonable to examine his actions in that context.
It is no different than having a candidate profess fiscal conservativism, and finding that he has voted for every perk and large government expansion while in office.
I think the rub here is that we all have strong opinions about faith and morals, whether developed in a formal church, or by other means. The trick is to not apply our own dogma, but to evaluate the candidate based on his adherence to his own criteria.
There is a complication there, too. Some of our beliefs are strongly enough held to be non-negotiable, under any analysis
A personal example in my case would be Mr. Obama’s stand on abortion. He is disqualified from my consideration based on his views.
Fr. Jonathan: After careful reading of Sen. Obama’s letter and listening to him speak his adeptness at revising positions and being vague about why he is doing things; i.e. leaving the church because he disagrees w/its positions or him being a candidate for President is intrusive to them. His comments about putting his children to bed at night and references to God lead one to believe he can see God as an illusion since he does not know where he goes or if he goes after this life. He is a man of many contradictions. People need to be aware that although he is presented as a South Chicago politician he never grew up in that area. I did. He is from Hawaii (no comparison to Sth Side) and Indonesia. Then elite college and law school dominated his life until he became an “organizer” along w/Fr. Pflager. The role he seems to believe government should play is more Marxist than democratic and while we all should be looking out for and helping our brothers and sisters from our heart this country was not formed to be socialized. Although candidat’s family members are “off limits”, I do wonder how much Michelle Obama has influenced his thinking and ambition. His comments are tempered w/an undertone compared to her more direct socialized approach she has used. My daughters are still paying off student loans although they are successful intheir own right. My main concern w/them is God as an illusion and the state taking care of all of our needs…seems like the wrong direction to me. Peace..K
Cheryl in NC: It’s election season in the US and anything goes. Politics have become increasingly divisive in the past 10-15 years with a “Them-or-us” mentality. I feel that the loudest on the extremes of both parties get all the attention while moderates in the middle are too busy dealing with life to get bent out of shape at every perceived slight by the other side.
Your point about associating McCain to Bush being flimsy is true, but it’s a tactic that both sides employ. Quilt by association has become the norm, as though we must agree with everything those we associate with say or do. I think there are legitimate issues regarding Obama’s church, but to assume he agrees with everything said is, in my opinion, a stretch. It does help the political cause though. It’s a win at any cost mentality these days.
As a side note, I live for four years in North Carolina and really found it beautiful but a bit too humid for me. Bugs the size of small children too!
I am always amazed that folks who claim to be secularly based, and may well be so, fail to note that even a secular belief system forms the basis of what and how you think on any topic….any topic at all.
So the abortion issue, the presidential race…school choice…euthanasia…will be decided by what people are taught, what they internalize and then believe…and thatt influences how they think and then how they vote.
So all those screaming that they don’t care about Obamas religious affiliation are making the assumption that Obama is as secular as they are…and maybe he is…and maybe he is not?
Either way it is an issue because a persons worldview is a product of their belief system…not all belief systems are religious…many are secular or humanistic or both..they all play a role in how a person perceives the world.
People exist in this world willing to die for their beliefs…we were reminded of this on 9-11. There are people willing to do a great deal besides die for their beliefs…and those who have the forsight to see this want to elect a person whose beliefs do not oppose their own radically.
Reply to Ed Sommers:
Well, I can assure you that I am not one of the milions that you propose to speak for. This blog was intended to generate a civil debate on an issue. It is difficult to have a debate when one finds the opponent’s argument to contain the suggestion to “shut up”. (my words not yours)
Rather than resort to talking points, I believe that the debate would be better served by stating a premise and then defending it. Of course, then you would have to sit back and let the other side respond. Try it, you might like it.
And please, also refrain from imposing your values, whatever they may be, on me. This is done by suggesting that I should restrict my comments in these matters, since they do not agree with your position. It is this kind of mentality that has created our acrimonious atmosphere, not the positions of the various political and religious participants.
To everyone else, please keep submitting comments, let them stand up to the light of day or not, on their own merit, not on personal opinions of other readers.
Dear Fr. Jonathan,
Once again I would like to thank you for your valuable insights and commentary. My own insights into Sen. Obama’s character are most closely associated to that of the well known story of the Pied Piper who comes to town, plays his seductive song, captures the minds and hearts of the people and then proceeds to lead them down the path of destruction and ruin. For me, a practicing Catholic, I find it incomprehensible that any intelligent person would not perceive the truth about Sen. Obama. His record speaks for itself but more importantly his rhetoric is about 180 degrees apart from his record. I am saddened to say this but I believe he is an impostor.
Obama is the Democratic candidate to be in the running to be President of the United States. His liberal policies, his liberal church, his liberal wife, and his voting records are not problems for the populace. He is charismatic. People trust him and want him to lead them. They really don’t seem to mind where he leads them. People are content to sit in front of their televisions, play their computer games and internet surfing and leave the country to someone whose middle name is Hussein and whose Muslim and Communist Schooling has helped form this man. Are we blinded? Yes, but only because we want to be.
Father Jonathan says that we should take some time to “reflect” befoe we write.
Yes, and more importantly, we need to “reflect” on the future and where it might take us under the “guidance” of Obama.
This is the first time a black man is running for president and the first time a woman is running for president.
BOTH the black man and the woman (of any color) have been been long overdue the chance to run for the highest office in the land.
Why aren’t we celebrating this huge accomplishment?? Why are we in a bitter battle over race?? Why is there a problem understanding what a church is for, the reason why it was built, the very reason it’s called a [b[church[/b]?? Why is it acceptable for only [i]Christians[/i] to tolerate this kind of blasphemy??
If anything EVER mean equality was a reality, the Democratic campaign is it. We should be celebrating this major victory.
Instead we are plunged into the netherworld of blasphemy of two churches and not only must we tolerate it, we must accept it, and we must even vote for a candidate that believes this blasphemy or be considered a racist.
May God help us all.
I’ve posted once on the forum already; please forgive this additional posting, but I wanted to address this. There have been some pretty nasty comments in the direction of Father Morris about what they see as an appearance of unfairness and even dislike on the part of him towards Barack Obama and even his wife, Michelle. He has even been accused of being a tool of the Republican Party.
I feel both of these beliefs are wrong.
I am not a Republican; I consider myself an independent. I may very well cast my vote for Obama in November; I have strong concerns about McCain, and if I had to choose to work with either man, I would work for Obama. However, I feel Father Morris is addressing valid concerns from a theological standpoint that have entered into the political framework, issues that are already being addressed elsewhere. His opinions may be strong, but they are fair.
But my opinion doesn’t stack up against evidence, and I have a couple of links that may be helpful here. Check out the below interview, which I believes demonstrates that Father Morris has been fair in his assessment of the political season thus far:
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=1fc2ebbcd3539ca3be70&page=3&viewtype=&category=
And in the below link from a previous column, Father Morris states that he is not a member of the Republican Party either:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304077,00.html
CONGRATS TO OBAMA FOR SECURING THE NOMINATION TODAY!!!! Good thing God judges people by their Heart and not by what others think. It’s time to drop the bitterness and rally behind the democratic nominee!
First let me say, Father, that you are a brave soul to do this blog. I am amazed at how many people are so disrespectful to you and others who leave a comment. So much for having an intelligent, mature discussion…..
I also want to say that I agree with some comments made by “Steve”:
(1) So true!: Mr. Morris’ opinions have no relationship to the “shall establish no religion” clause, so drop the silly “separation of church and state” arguement or explain why it’s relevant.
(2)Took the words right out of my mouth: To the Catholics (and others) who write “go back to preaching and stay out of politics” I reply, why don’t you go back to school teaching, programming, homemaking, or whatever you’re occupation is and stay out of politics? In other words, Mr. Morris is a citizen just as much as you and I and has not only the right to be involved but an obligation as a citizen to be involved.
To add one of my own: It would be great if folks stayed on topic! This is not a race issue. I do, however, think it is indeed a religous issue:
I can understand Obama’s reluctance to “resign” from Trinity Church. It can be hard to leave your church home. I would be lost without my parish. That said, my national church (Episcopal Church USA) drives me batty with over-the-top political correctness. So much so that I often refer to my self as Anglican to avoid stupid comments like, “Episcopal, huh? You’re the ones with the gay bishop, right?” UGH. (Actually MY bishop is a happily married man with grown children. Gene Robinson is not MY bishop, but that’s another blog!)
Anyway, my point is one’s faith is not black and white. There are so many things you have to be mindful of when you run for office; codifying and explaining your religious beliefs has got to be the toughest. I just think it’s good that Obama has at least distanced himself from the nuts, but it could not have been easy to realize what others now think of someone you once considered a mentor.
Thanks for listening and please pardon my misspelled words. Not my best talent!
For the record: I am 40-ish, white female, “liberal Republican”, wife and mother of 1. Cradle Episcopalian and a devout “via media” Anglican. Regisgtered voter in Alabama.
Looking forward to more posts!!!
After reading some of the responses here I am saddened by some. Yes father it is easy to sit in the arm chair and throw “cheap shots” at other’s religion. Why not, there’s no face placed on it. We seem to have lost a sense of civility. Civility isn’t an accessory one can put on or take off like a scarf. It is inseparable from one’s character. But, as you say, love will prevail…..
Someone will post a civil comment on some topic. Almost immediately, someone else will swing the verbal “hammer” of incivility, and from there the chat degrades into a food fight, with invective and insult as the main course.
Incivility is not a social blunder to be compared with using the wrong fork. Rather, it betrays a defect of character. Incivility is dangerous graffiti, regardless of whether it is spray-painted on a subway car or embossed on the title page of a book.
Sadly, too many of us are not rising to these challenges as a democratic people. On the contrary, we’ve seen a 40-year decline in voter participation in national elections. In the last two presidential elections, fewer than half of eligible voters bothered to vote. Rather than helping to reverse this decline, the rising chorus of incivility is driving out citizens of honest intent and encouraging those who trade in jeering and mockery.
Father, I thank God for the gift of your self and what you have to offer humanity. I pray that some here will lay their “hammers” down and have a change of heart by following your example and the good examples of others here when comes time to defend their convictions.
Father
Since this forum is a bit of an experiment for everyone, I just thought you would like to know how I as a reader, have come to utilize it. As time is always at a premium, I find myself more and more skipping over the numerous responses and scrolling down, looking to see what YOU felt was worthy of a response and then reading those posts.
Just an observation
As Always
Mark
How sad it speaks for America today when the FRONTRUNNER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY has spent his Sundays for the LAST TWENTY YEARS in a RACIST ARENA where the RINGMASTER disguises himself as a Pastor. And nobody recognzes it for the sad and sick circus it is!!!
I find Father Morris should live by full disclosure — he was the spiritual adivor to Mel Gibson, a man who harbors deep anit-semetic views. I wonder if those are share by the Father Morris.
Obama said people should vote for him because John McCain would be four more years of Bush. He’s connecting McCain to Bush basically because they’re both Republicans, isn’t he? There’s not been that much agreement on policies between Bush and McCain. So Obama is trying to convince voters not to vote Republican because they all think alike. Sounds like guilt by association to me.
If it’s good enough to use against someone else, why should he not expect it to apply to him also?
Father Jonathan,
You have noted that Pfleger is a “social activist inspired by liberation theology.” Social activism has no place in a church sanctuary. You say that Pfleger has “watched his step closely so as not to break Canon Law.” Apparently he has mastered ways to sidestep his Bishop, but does he follow in Christ’s footsteps … as a representative of Christ? Christ said, in Matt 11:29: “Shoulder my yoke and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” Pfleger does not seem to be particularly humble or gentle … rather he appears to filled with wrath, sarcasm, and egoism. He does not instill “rest” in my soul. He is an agitator, and he spreads hate.
In Pope John Paul II’s encyclical Centesimus Annus, he states that, “The Church respects the legitimate autonomy of the democratic order and is not entitled to express preferences for this or that institutional or constitutional solution. Her contribution to the political order is precisely her vision of the dignity of the person revealed in all its fullness in the mystery of the incarnate Word.”
At least Pope John Paul got it right.
Dear Father Jonathan,
Thank you for your comments of Father Pflager and Obama.
I am 75 yrs old and a cradle Catholic and I am proud of you, not Pflager. In all my years I have never heard of a Catholic priest berate and mock someone like he did to Mrs. Clinton. I thought our church was going through the priest’s scandals all over again. Every time Pfleger was shown on TV, the word Catholic was emphasized. One commentator remarked that preaching was the upmost importance in all these churches. I thought and know that The Eucharist is the most important part of our services.
I’m not voting for Obama, not because he’s one half Black. I really don’t give one hoot about what color he is. I care about his stance on Abortion. How come these so’called Catholics aren’t talking about that. How can a Christian like he professes to be vote against a ruling in Illinois that would have permitted babies surviving an abortion and independent of their mothers receive medical care. This is barbaric! I’m sick of hearing about Wright and Pfleger and whether Obama should have left his church or not. We’d better start looking at Obama, the man. In answer to the woman who wrote that she, a Catholic didn’t leave the Church because of the priest’s scandals, our services are built on The Eucharist not what the priest is preaching so who cares whether it’s Pfleger or not!
Comment by Amy
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Hypocrisy - what white person can truly claim to not have said things far more “racist” about individuals than Phleger or Wright? Who can claim they do not have friends, family members who have done and said things about or to others simply because of their color or ethnicity? That is what I find so hypocritical in all of this. **snipped**
My comment:
Amy, I hate to burst your bubble, but I have not and never will say anything remotely racist about ANYONE, period. What’s more if anyone around me ever used racist language I set them straight immediately. Each person should be evaluated on their own merits. I know that I’m not alone in this so please, don’t lump all people together just because you yourself have done it and/or have friends that have stated such and you didn’t correct them at the time.
While we’re on the subject of race……people bring up the issue of slavery quite regularly. Let’s think back in history a minute. White people had black people as slaves, true……….BUT white people fought for the slaves’ freedom, too (both black and white slaves). There were plenty of white people who gave their lives so that others could have the freedom they themselves had. Something to think about.
Steve S.
Thanks for responding. I’ll start by saying that I had to learn about Kennedy through history as I’m too young for personal experience. I understand though that is was quite a concern at the time. I certainly agree that people in general like to gravitate towards those with like ideas. I’m concerned though with the outright hatred I’ve heard because some percieve Obama to not be a “true Christian”. I’ve even seen it posted here that Catholics aren’t “true Christians”. That type of talk is worrisome to me because what it seems to imply is that it doesn’t matter what the person is really like, only what religion they are.
I checked out the Global Poverty Bill and here it is in all its infamy. Head for the hills, folks if Obama is elected. He will give the store away.
proposal by Barack Obama. It’s called the Global Poverty Act, that would, in the next decade, transfer at least $845 billion of U.S. taxpayer money overseas. Think of Johnson’s failed war on poverty going international — directed not by Americans but by the United Nations.
Jean-Robert, FRANCE: Sure looks like we wasted a lot of precious American blood on thje sands of Normandy and throughout the rest of your soil too, liberating your traitoruous nation. Now all you can think of is how to get a shorter work week and longer vacations while the terrorists are making great headway in taking over your own country. Just like the rest of Europe, you are only concerned with immediate creature comforts, much I’m afraid like a lot of Amricans are becoming today.
America Frist said:
President Obama will bring about the changes we need int his country. To begin with, it helps to have some smart in the WH. He is a patriotic American who cares about everyone…stop dividing us.
Response:
Won’t wash Frist. How can he bring about changes, when he couldn’t or wouldn’t change his own church? He is not smart. If he were smart, he would have dropped the baggage a long time ago. Oprah dropped it, why didn’t he? He aint got what it takes. The dictators of the world will eat him up and spit him out. If he is going to turn the American economy around, why is he sponsoring a global poverty bill which will ruin the U.S. Check out his global poverty bill. Another giveaway. The ship “America” will slowly sink into the ocean. Rome lasted longer than America.
Dave,
In reference to to your question, “why being a “Christian” is such an important factor for some in a President? Does that mean there are those that wouldn’t vote for anyone of a different faith?” I think that there are several reasons why people find it important. The most obvious reason is that people take comfort in their leaders (as well as their peers) being like-minded. (The majority of Americans consider themselves to be Christian.) This is not limited to politics. When given a reason, people clump into like groups (race, gender, social class, team preferences, etc…). Along these same lines, a “Christian” president is what we are used to and feel like we can predict. If you recall, there was concern over the fact that Kennedy was Catholic. People were concerned that the Catholic Church, through him, would wield too much influence. I think that people very much have that concern with someone who is Muslim…or potentially Muslim. A Hindu president would just seem strange to most Americans, as they are not familiar with it. A jewish president, while I think they would be more readily accepted than the previous two mentioned, would still suffer from historical prejudices and fears. In essence, they would all be considered great unknowns and, therefore, inspire a degree of uneasiness (warranted or not).
Do I, personally, believe that a non-Christian could make a good (or great) president? Of course… And I say that as a fairly conservative Christian. While I too would prefer what I consider a like-minded president, I am fully aware that there are people who do “the right thing” without being of my faith. Salvation aside, I believe that we all, innately, carry the necessary moral compass to do what we should (Christion, Jew, Muslim or Atheist). The ultimate question is whether we are guided by that compass…
Yo, people, the objections to Obama are not about religion. I would vote for the guy no matter what his religion, if he showed me something — especially, character and good judgment. He ain’t got neither, folks. as a matter off act, he has nothing. He is the proverbial empty suit. How many years did he listen to the hate-filled rants and crack pot conspiracy theories and never said anything? What also disturbed me is the wildly applauding, cheering congregation, standing on their chairs, soaking all the hate and conspiracy in their minds. Did he applaud, cheer and stand on his chair too. Is everybody afraid to say anything about their reaction.
I work with lots of African Americans and they too are filled with these conspiracy theories. One told me that she actually doesn’t believe that two planes flew into Twin Towers. When I said didn’t you see the film, with the planes crashing into the building. She said: “they was doctored by the CIA.” Another told me that she always believed that HIV virus was deliberately planted in the black community.
As a Catholic, I saw some of my own family members twisted by liberation theology into America-hating Marxists. Thankfully they have since rejected such reactionary politics and learned to see both the good and the bad in America. Liberation theology is a poison for the soul.
So many comments bring so many things to mind - here’s something that triggered me to write.
I have never understood the difference between the sins of slavery and the sins of parents. There’s a story in the Bible where Jesus is asked who is to blame for a man being born blind …is it the sin of the man or of his parents. This story applies to everyone. I am where I am today because of my parents influence including their mistakes. Do I choose to blame them or thank them? They did the best they could under the circumstances they faced. Some of the mistakes they made have cost me dearly, but I can not blame them. We all have crosses to bear. They do too! perhaps mistakes passed on from their parents. So why do people rally to blame white folks today (most of which do not even come from families who owned slaves) for something that happened so long ago. I don’t know what personal tragedies led my ancestors to come to this country, but I am grateful because this is a wonderful country to live in despite it’s faults. Some may say sure, but your not poor. The only reason I’m not is because my grandparents worked very hard all their lives to pull themselves out of poverty. An apology from the president for the existence of slavery in this country is not going to change people’s lives. Only we ourselves can change our lives. It’s not easy (I’m trying to make significant changes myself), but very worthwhile. I only wish I’d come to the realization sooner, so I could have started sooner. This is what preachers should preach about not blaming someone else. To preach blame only misleads people.
Here’s a response to Brad’s comment. You said Obama speaks “proudly and fluently in the language of the Gospel” and that from this you will draw your conclusions of his character. Remember that Jesus said many would come speaking in his name falsely. It would be wiser to make your judgements based on a man’s actions not what he says.
Thank God for you Father. You will be richly blessed for being brave enough to tell the truth and not fall under the tyranny of political correctness. Everyone needs to know what this person has planned for America. Stop being brainwashed people. You are wished harm not good.
This nation was founded upon the belief that we are all free to choose our religious faith. That is one of our greatest freedoms that many nations do not enjoy. But, how do we elect a president in an environment of religious freedom? Many of our founding fathers were deists or did not subscribe to a specific organized religion but nonetheless they created this great country of ours. So why the concern over Obama? It is not his faith that concerns me, rather it is the anti-American rhetoric that the people in his church espouse. I love this country and do not want to elect someone who may adhere to ideology counter i.e. communism or any other form of radical political philosophy to what the Founding Fathers fought to build for us . In my mind a man cannot spend 20 years listening to that type of poison without ingesting some of it. He refused to wear the American flag and to put his hand over his heart during the Star Spangled Banner. These things speak volumes to me. As a veteran I understand that he has to lead our military, and service members will not trust someone who does not greatly love their country. After all our men and women in uniform swear to defend, even to death, the Constitution of the United States. So his Christianity is not in question but rather his love of this nation as it has been created. It is not his job to radically change what our Founding Fathers gave us.
Charles
I though this blog is supposed to be about Sen. Obama, but you use it as an attack on the Catholic religion
Yawn, Yawn!! Aw come on, chuck, you can do better than that, don’t sugar coat it. Can’t you be more original? It is the same hate-filled rhetoric since the 16th century – the anti-Christ, papists, popery, idols, etc. — that you must hear from your preacher or do you read Chick comic books? Get a life. Better yet, get a history book, instead of the above comic books, you might learn something.
I used to get angry about this, but now I feel sorry for you and others who know nothing but ignorance and hate. Your world is so small and dark.
Maybe you are what Obama was speaking of when he said” “clinging to religion.” Only what you cling to is not religion, but hate.
Margot, and All: Just a reminder. There is a curious human dynamic that occurs on Internt blogs and Forums. We are inclined to say things here that we would not say if the person to whom we are directing our words were standing in front of us. And even beyond that, we find ourselves expressing negative sentiments against other people which are just barely our own. In other words, sometimes the worst in us just spills forth. Is it the anonimity factor? That must be part of it.
But I’ve noticed something else: if we give ourselves just a few extra seconds of reflection (something we don’t always have if the person is standing in front of us) before responding, we can reverse that curious human dynamic and actually use this Foum to make the best of us come forth. Here we can form the habit of speaking the truth in love.
Let’s try.
Father Jonathan
As a Roman Catholic I am offended and embarassed by Fr. Pfleger’s outrageous display. Obama is a politician doing what is necessary to make himself electable. At the very least, you know his motivation for ditching friends, churches and spiritual advisiors. But shouldn’t Pfelger be held accountable to God’s standards and the teachings of His church? His superiors should send him to a monastary for a few years, far from television cameras and politics. Maybe without a crowd to whip into a frenzy he can remember what it means to be a priest.
Fr. J,
I have not seen Obama’s liberation theology spelled out and to claim that he professes loyalty to it is merely to call him to reflect on its tenets despite his disavowal of being a theologian. I think his loyalty is to persons, not to a theology, and he certainly can call Rev. Moss a good pastor for everything else he does because liberation theology does not define Rev. Moss.
Theologian or not, Obama does not have to reject one tenet of liberation theology, namely, through the mediation of Christ and His people, the poor can hope to be lifted up to a ‘classless society,’ a just society that presages the Communion of Saints. Lifting up of the poor has meant sympathy with armed struggle in South America, but in South Chicago it meant learning how to work the system.
In light of this, Rev. Wright’s vilification of the U.S. government may be seen as making the cow more willing to be milked. I lived ten years near South Chicago and have seen how the black community worked the system. Obama is an instance of how well they learned. Trinity Church’s version of liberation theology seems to identify the ‘classless society’ as that of the upper middle class to which they are sending Rev. Wright.
VL
Father Jonathan, I am not familiar at all with liberation theology. It sickens my heart and soul that a Catholic priest (and I use that term very reluctantly), Father Pfleger, spoke in a “church” expressing such hate, mockery, foul language and worst of all devisiveness. There were no words of unity, forgiveness, love, God loves all people, love thy neighbor. When I first saw the clip and heard the words on the radio, I said that is not a Catholic priest! If he were a priest in the Catholic Church I attend today, it would cause me to stop going to that church immediately. I cannot believe that the Catholic Church is knowledgeable about his actions and only gives him a “slap on the wrist”. This is a priest who has developed his own religion and it is not the Catholic religion and he should no longer be allowed to be considered a “Catholic priest”. He is a detriment to our faith.
Hypocrisy - what white person can truly claim to not have said things far more “racist” about individuals than Phleger or Wright? Who can claim they do not have friends, family members who have done and said things about or to others simply because of their color or ethnicity? That is what I find so hypocritical in all of this. We all determine where we will live, who we worship with, who we hire, where we socialize and who we date and marry based upon preconceived notions of race and economics - that is what divides this country. Obama did not invent the segregated lives Americans live - that is a result of healing that never truly happened. But when people are angry about it or speak up about it, we call them racists then go back to our segregated lives - content that no more than 10% of our neighbors or minorities and when the tipping point happens - we jet. Then we tell our friends and relatives to “stay away from that neighborhood.” HYPOCRICY!